| Mail |
You might also like: WoW Insider, Joystiq, and more

Reader Comments (51)

Posted: Feb 19th 2011 6:27PM Apakal said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
@Sephirah

While I myself very much pine for a game that has an intelligent, vibrant, and enjoyable community (if one already exists, please tell me!), I think its pretty much just a pipe dream in this day and age.

When carrot-on-a-stick is the backbone of the game, its always going to produce gear chasers and epeen strokers. Unless a game comes along that can actually be successful without some sort of gear-centric value system, like one that actually relies on skill and charisma in group dynamics (actually getting people to like you and building profitable relationships), I don't anticipate the shallow, unique snowflake attitude to subside anytime soon.
Reply

Posted: Feb 19th 2011 10:56PM SeriousTable said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Khalus

Your philosophy for MMOs is flawed. The entire purpose of an MMORPG is a persistent and ever evolving world. A game that continues even after you "beat it". It's not supposed to have an end, unlike single-player, offline games. THAT'S why there's "End-game" content. If you're looking for a definite finish, may I recommend any of the amazing Legend of Zelda games, perhaps Fallout 3 or even Mass Effect 2 if you're feeling adventurous?
Reply

Posted: Feb 19th 2011 11:59AM SeriousTable said

  • 2.5 hearts
  • Report
Okay, I had my concerns, but I'm rather impressed with the Raid Rifts. Their limiting the raid gear to just the people who opened the Rift is a nice touch, but upping the difficulty and giving players that arrive to help some rewards in tokens (which turn out some nice gear themselves) is well thought-out. I'm quite excited for this.

Posted: Feb 19th 2011 12:25PM Rialle said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Raids are not killing WoW. They've been the primary end game content since the game launched and it seems to be a very viable model. Blizzard has found ways to make WoW raiding more inclusive over the years as well.

The problem with raiding instances isn't the number of people required or the "difficulty." The problem is that players have to wait for raid lockouts to do any worthwhile PvE past small group content, and guilds are forced to raid on schedules based around these lockouts. This can prohibitive to players with uncertain schedules.

That is why I like the potential of rift events. If Trion does things as promised, then there is (in theory) a possibility for worthwhile, large scale PvE content being available at almost any time. So even if you're not able to do the raid instances on a regular basis due to your schedule, there is a possibility that you can do larger rift events that happen dynamically.

I guess we'll see 3-6 months down the line after the game if they've fulfilled this potential.

Posted: Feb 19th 2011 12:38PM Keen and Graev said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
As long as I do not need to raid to do well in PvP then I'm happy. Remember WoW in the old days when raiders were also the best PvPers because of the gear? My guild downed Nef and we never lost a single battleground or open-world encounter.

Posted: Feb 19th 2011 1:04PM Gaugamela said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Keen and Graev

I hope so too. But excluding that vanilla WoW was awesome. It had a much bigger feeling of belonging to a persistent world and a community.

I only managed to raid up untill MC and ZG.

Rift reminds me of vanilla WoW in the way it is set up with world raids and instanced raids.
Reply

Posted: Feb 19th 2011 1:04PM Rialle said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Keen and Graev

I've not done any RIFT PvP, so I don't know much about how RIFT is preventing this problem. I am not a PvPer at heart, I only dabble in it. What you describe isn't a WoW-specific problem, per say, but it was a big problem in WoW PvP during classic days. I know that there are PvP centered souls that can be earned via PvP activities.

WoW attempted to solve the problem by adding PvP specific resilience gear that was earned via PvP in BC, and has expanded upon this concept in WOTLK and Cataclysm. I feel for the most part they've been successful.
Reply

Posted: Feb 19th 2011 1:54PM Celestian said

  • 2.5 hearts
  • Report
@Keen and Graev The problem with WoW's pvp is they didn't have gear in PVP that was equivalent to PVE gear. If TRION would have similar gear available in PVP that PVErs get then it wouldn't be an issue.

However they seem to be going the same route that WoW did and introducing and artificial stat that will force you to grind gear in PVP and PVE if you want to take part in both.

Hoping they drop it. I like to mix up my game but I am not going to grind out gear twice to do it.
Reply

Posted: Feb 19th 2011 1:55PM Zuato said

  • 2.5 hearts
  • Report
@Rialle
I've ran the warfronts and they are a lot of fun. I've also played WoW since open beta and I honestly think Blizzard really fragmented the game by putting resilience on PvP gear. Once they did that they created two different grinds (this was really an issue in Wrath and Cata). Now they have beat the heck out of class abilities in PvE to "balance" PvP.

What they should have done is created equivalent gear in PvP that works in PvE and vice-versa. This way players can participate in both play styles without two entirely separate grinds IMHO.

Right now Rift has Valor on level 50 PvP gear. This is going to do the same thing Blizzard did once people hit max level. It's going to be mostly an either/or thing. You either PvP or PvE raid unless you have a lot of free time on your hands since the gear is different and not really usable in both (ask a WoW player who primarily raids what it is like going into a battle ground against players in full PvP gear).

I'll reiterate - IMHO they need to create PvP gear that is not PvP specific and works in PvE and vice-versa. This makes both parts of the game accessible to everyone instead of creating two different grinds.
Reply

Posted: Feb 19th 2011 6:46PM eLdritchZ said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Keen and Graev

I can't tell you how it will look with higher raiding tiers but I can tell you that for release there is an ample assortment of PvP gear which can be obtained for Favor and the Prestige Ranks...

Also PvP gear has the "Valor" stat which is basically Resilience only that it reduces all damage received in PvP. So there is seperate gear for raiders and PvPers....

I know that lots of people will probably have a problem with that, too but frankly you have to thank the god aweful epic lootz system, that everyone loves so much, for that...
Reply

Posted: Feb 19th 2011 1:08PM Gaugamela said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Glad to know that there's going to be endgame content already from the get go and they can add more to the game.

Raids will be a crucial part of endgame content and crucial to develop the game storyline but I am confident that they will introduce other types of content as well.

Why this confidence? Because they created a traditional MMO but gave it their own twist with Rifts and the Souls System. Therefore, it is highly likely that they will introduce different types of endgame besides the traditional raid content. :)

I would love to see them iterating on the concept of Ship vs Ship PvP and navigating in big areas. Much like in Allods. I think the lore can support this as well.

Posted: Feb 19th 2011 1:46PM oxlar said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Removing 10 mans and giving smaller raid groups a concessionary prize of 'public group raids' is pathetic. Thats not a 10 man raid. thats a public rift. its shared content. Its not isolated content for a group of friends to enjoy. lame.

Posted: Feb 19th 2011 1:56PM Zuato said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@oxlar Did you read the article? The 10 man public raids gear is only given to those that OPEN the rift. Everyone else that joins in only gets tokens and cash.
Reply

Posted: Feb 19th 2011 3:04PM Wensbane said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
@Zuato

Restricting gear rewards to the "initial ten" doesn't really make it a 10 man raid. It's still public.

To be honest, though, I'm still concerned about a possible lack of endgame options. Specifically for those who do not like to join guilds just to access some form of group content - be it for 10, 20 or even 40 players.

I guess I'm getting a little tired of being "punished" for not liking raids and/or content-driven guilds.
And by that I mean never getting to see the most interesting and lore-driven parts of these games, as well as the many rewards contained within them.

In other words, I expect these "public events" to be both engaging and challenging to solo/small group players, such as myself, and I definitely expect those "tokens" to be worth something. We need our "carrots" too, you know...
Reply

Posted: Feb 19th 2011 1:57PM BGExorcist said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Wen I saw the 10 man raid rift it stike me as... skirmishes? But with people able to help/kill you.

Posted: Feb 19th 2011 2:14PM Celestian said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
It's a shame they didn't keep 10 man instanced raids. That's about the largest my guild will do. Hopefully they change their minds otherwise we'll run out of things to do on end game.

Posted: Feb 19th 2011 2:44PM VampireCactus said

  • 2.5 hearts
  • Report
Though I've already pre-ordered Rift and plan to enjoy it immensely, it still seems strange to me that developers haven't realized that the only real solution for MMO end game is sandbox elements. MMO developers could learn a lot from Minecraft! If that's what you get to do when you reach the max level, you'll immediately guarantee that players will stick around a lot longer. If you give them the tools, the players will generate the content themselves so you don't have to! Why has no one done this yet?

Posted: Feb 19th 2011 2:56PM Kordor said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I am a little disappointed that they didn't even mention pvp as endgame content. While RIFT focuses on PVE of course (well, this is what WoW does as well), I would have liked a little more for PvP fans.
Would have been pretty cool if there was some dynamic open world pvp content as fortresses to capture or something like that (as in DAoC) or even more sandbox style pvp (like Shadowbane). Battlegrounds I see more as an excuse as "see, we got pvp as well". WoW at least implemented Arenas to push the whole thing into E-Sports direction which is cool as well (though a completely different story as open world pvp).
So regarding this video, it just left a sad face for me.

Posted: Feb 19th 2011 4:52PM Kordor said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Puremallace

"This video was put out due to extremely heavy demand by the MMO community to get a definition of what is a raid rift? what does a 20 man raid look like in Rift?"

Well, in this regards, the video was quite good of course.
It wasn't called like that though.
And of course you always have a FOTM in ALL games involving pvp. It was like that in ALL games I played yet. Most extreme in DAoC and SWG. Arena does not change anything about that, the only difference is, that Arena is decided by tiny unbalances. Yes, of course every few months other classes dominate the ladders, but unlike in daoc people don't reroll their classes every time (of course this does have other reasons as well).

Personally I currently play wow and only login when my buddy or buddies want to play arena as I don't like raiding that much (and they don't either).
Reply

Posted: Feb 19th 2011 6:04PM Brockobama321 said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Puremallace Are you the same Puremallace from the Aion forums?
Reply

Featured Stories

Make My MMO: October 19 - 25, 2014

Posted on Oct 25th 2014 8:00PM

Perfect Ten: My World of Warcraft launch memories

Posted on Oct 25th 2014 12:00PM

Engadget

Engadget

Joystiq

Joystiq

WoW Insider

WoW

TUAW

TUAW