The Daily Grind: What aspects of DIKU MMOs make you laugh?

@Chambers im with you. even after reading the wiki link i still dont really know wtf it means. in reference to the article though .... you have a good tank, which means dps just has to stand back and dps. so therefore ... umm wait... what?! youre saying its boring once everyone gets gear.... isnt that the way its supposed to be? rofl. i dont get it. from an immersion standpoint, the monster is dumb, he doesnt know the dude in the back is causing him the most damage. the monster is more focused on the guy right in his face that keeps slamming him with a shield. from an immersion standpoint, i dont think the "monster" has real life meters running to tell him who he should attack. maybe im just really confused

@Chambers

Not studying your history doesn't somehow make that history invalid.

@Chambers

Definitely the 'wrong side of bed' dude. The harping on the etymological angle gives it away. ;)

In other news, I came onboard with EQ, so I have no MUD experience beyond the more recent Discworld MUD. However, the way I justify the situation you use to illustrate your piece, is that even though the mob would *like* to break off and nail the damage dealers, he is psychologically sttuned to dealing with the mobs right in front of him.

It's like when you play Champs; standard mob grouping is 2x easy mobs (Henchmen) with 1x tougher mob (Villain). So the question becomes, do you focus first on the toughest mob, who is hurting you the most but takes longer to bring down, or do you first deal with the multiple weaker mobs, who are together maybe causing you as much or nearly as much pain but will go down quicker?

Speaking as a devout warrior and tanker of ten years+, I think the answer to that question depends on how much pain you can absorb before it becomes a problem, and for a tanking class , it's generally easier to focus on the big guy first then deal with the little, annoying mobs who will die relatively quickly (even for you). Doing that with less health because you just dealt with the heavy hitter first is, 9 times out of 10, easily accomplished and hugely exciting too. LOTRO, DDO and Champs have their tanks very nicely balanced to provide a 90% guaranteed win for the tank, with a 99% guaranteed thrill too.

Apologies for any logic lapses, I'm drunk as a skunk.

@pcgneurotic

Shoot, I meant *attuned, not sttuned, ofc. doh!

@Chambers

Maybe it's time to get educated about the history of MMOs.

Everquest was derived from a popular MUD known as DIKUmud. World of Warcraft, Final Fantasy 11, and Everquest 2 were all derived from Everquest. Most other games in the genre were derived from World of Warcraft or one of the other EQ derivatives.

So as the author states, virtually the entire MMO genre is derived from DIKU. Exceptions to this rule would be things like Ultima Online or the original Star Wars: Galaxies.

@Chambers

Or you could just not know your gaming history at all. Though it is more like comparing a old west 6 shooter to a new .45 cal semi-automatic with a 30 round clip. Same mechanics/improved design.

Wooden javelin/gun different mechanics/different weapon type

All current MMO's are loosly based off of the MUD code called DIKU. DIKU was one of several popular MUD codes, though it was the most popular. It was closely followed in popularity by ROM and ENVY. The farther back in MMO history you go the more the MMO looks like a DIKU MUD. Everquest even had the exact same /commands origionally (don't know about anymore...they might have updated the interface...was going to return to it awhile back but it would freeze after character creation).

@Chambers

I'd have to agree with you there. The Wiki link doesn't mention anything about this particular mechanic.

If we are talking about history, we could just as easily refer to D&D, saying that the plate-wearers are up front and the clothies are in back, with the thief/rogue behind angling for a backstab-type situation. Or push it further back to older battlefield strategies, with infantry up front and the lightly armored archers (ranged DPS) in the rear.

I generally refer to this game play mechanic as "spank n' tank" myself.

The author's point is a good one though. This concept, while easily understood and easy to script encounters for, is definitely not immersive.

"Taunt" is a ridiculous mechanic. Why would a boss mob, especially a supposedly intelligent demi-god or whatever, decide not to take out the healers/DPSers 1st and focus on the tank, just because the tank...what? Insulted his lineage? A "your mama" insult maybe?

It's pretty unrealistic, and we definitely need to replace this tired paradigm. It will be a long time coming though, because without that, you need to totally redefine class roles so that players can survive fights without it, yet there are still enough differences and compelling reasons to play different roles.

@(Unverified)

Thank you. That was my assumption but the Wiki link seemed to draw it into some strange MUD origins which I had trouble deciphering.

Isn't there another acronym for tank, heal, Mage mechanisms in games?

@(Unverified) Thanks, I guessed as much from the article, but it was still rather diffuse.

Luckily GW2 takes a break from it and we'll maybe soon see other stuff following.

I guess the only way I could viably excuse the old trinity tanking/healing/dps is if the tank is big and heavy. You know, the boss might want to get to those tasty looking roasters in the back, but there's this annoying guy who keeps tripping you up. Deal with him first then.
In other words, there shouldn't be any bosses five times bigger than your tank.

@KvanCetre It's definitely not a tech issue, just a matter of finding a way to make it fun. People have figured out how to build fun encounters using the holy trinity, and it works, even if it is a bit silly. But I agree with you. I'd like to see someone try a model where everyone is a tank as well as being whatever their other role is, and just as you describe, the person currently on the defensive changes as the enemy decides who it wants to smack down next (which could still possibly use some sort of hate system, but if so, probably one that only cares about what has happened to it most recently, or for smarter mobs, what COULD happen to it in the near future).

You could do cool things with group dynamics that way too, by having the tanking abilities often work well with other player abilities. So, like, maybe a mage "tanking" ability could involve blinding the enemy with a flash of light from your staff (which you can only do while being actively attacked), which for a few seconds also allows any rogues to go into stealth. Because the players can't control who gets attacked, you can't intentionally set up those combos in every situation, but at the same time, you don't need to watch a huge list of debuffs to know when you can do an ability combo, cuz you get the huge visual queue of the big monster attacking your wizard friend. Like, "Ooo, wizard's being attacked, I should be able to do X soon... yep, there it is."

But yeah, short answer is that it's an unknown how or if alternate methods would work, and MMOs basically fail to be completed most of the time as it is, even using traditional mechanics.

@ErikC
It's times like this that I hate not having an edit button to change "queue" to "cue."

@joemarra052075 Very true. Players want the illusion of challenge, not the reality of it. They want to be able to pull mob by mob, not have the first goblin sound the alarm that locks down the goblin caves while the players are caught in heavy crossbow fire.