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Reader Comments (26)

Posted: Feb 3rd 2011 2:36PM Harley Dude said

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LOL why am I not surprised Cryptic jacked C-store prices for the F2P conversion? Never contaminating my hard drive with their filth ever again was clearly the right decision.

More on topic, this is one example of why F2P is bad. People with no investment in a game and who are just miserable bastards in general can make unlimited F2P accounts and just be total jackholes with no consequences, other than having to take a minute to make another free account in the unlikely event they actually get banned. LotRO's community took a noticeable decline with F2P.

I'm not even a RPer and those people with nothing better to do than try to ruin other peoples' game annoy the hell out of me.

Posted: Feb 3rd 2011 2:52PM RaxorX said

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@Harley Dude People with no commitment will leave because then they will be playing a game they do not like. As a F2P gamer I have seen communities that are not too amazing such as global agenda and I assume alot of people who are F2P don't understand the meaning of RPing. I also didn't know the club was a popular RP area until this post.
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Posted: Feb 3rd 2011 3:03PM augustgrace said

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@Harley

I don't think prices were raised. I think the issue is the prices were always too high.

RPers were complaining about this issue long before f2p. Maybe f2p made the issue bigger by increasing the population, and thus the numbers of irritating players, but f2p isn't responsible for bad behavior.

Posted: Feb 3rd 2011 3:17PM Slayblaze said

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As someone who never played CO prior to the F2P update 10 days ago, but who has been playing a lot since then, this really gave me some things to think about. I'm not an RPer but I *did* create an interesting BIO for myself, in fact I found myself "getting into it" more than I thought I would. I never thought about interjecting my personal playstyle into the description of my Hero though - now I think I'll add a line or two sentences so someone inspecting my BIO will know a bit more.

SInce I'm a CO newb I didn't know that CC even existed until several days ago, I just discovered it and walked inside. Didn't notice any griefers or disruptions, but then again I didn't stay for too long.

Now, regarding hanging out in places that out-level the F2P newbs, I will ding level 34 very soon (today tomorrow maybe) and I see plenty of others are my same level in the zones I'm leveling in so I'm not alone. The option of hiding in high level zones/instances will soon be off the table. However I'm going to assume that most of the new players who actually make it to endgame level cap will be ones who are not the type to disrupt RPing although there will probably be a few.

The RPers should just hang in there and ride out the storm a bit more, hopefully they are a resilient bunch. I know all these new players are a disruption but overall it seems like a very good thing that going F2P has achieved exactly what it was designed to do - attract a lot more players.

Posted: Feb 3rd 2011 4:03PM (Unverified) said

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This article is precisely indicative of why I could never get into CO's RPing community. RPers in CO and CoH have this bizarre sense of entitlement like the game should change to cater to their character, rather than serving as, here's a shocker: a game. What you consider "Disruptive" gameplay is, well, simply gameplay. And people are going to play the game. Expecting or even demanding the makers of the game to "do something about it" is completely bizarre

Posted: Feb 3rd 2011 4:28PM Issmir said

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@(Unverified)

Not sure I can agree with that. The disruptive gameplay isn't just gameplay, as it's being done specifically to annoy/alienate other players. Following someone around and throwing things at them while spamming chat and emotes is not simply gameplay. It's a bit like saying someone playing the tuba next door at four in the morning isn't being inconsiderate, he's being a musician; hi might be a musician, but he's being an inconsiderate one.

As a counter point, I've been in BASH matches and had people try RPing with me in there. I found THAT disruptive too. Difference is, when I sent them a polite tell pointing out that it was pulling my focus from what I as doing, they were good natured about it.

I've RPd heavily in other games, I don't RP much in champions. In my experience, RPers are no more nor less entitled, self-righteous or indeed humble than any other group of players.
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Posted: Feb 3rd 2011 5:39PM Irem said

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@(Unverified)
RP is also, shockingly enough, part of the game. It's like saying that people who block mailboxes with gigantic mounts or spam huge amounts of graphical effects in one area with the intention of slowing people down are just "playing the game" because there's no deliberate mechanic to stop them from doing it.
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Posted: Feb 3rd 2011 11:28PM Valdamar said

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@Tempes Magus
I agree - most roleplayers I bump into in MMOs always seem to want to push aside the lore in favour of standing around in bars/clubs, acting out relationship melodramas with only two settings - mundane or sleazy - bashing egos together as they try to decide whose character is more angsty. Yawn. If they wanted to write improv fanfic together then they could go do that in private IRC channels instead of making idiots of themselves in public areas of an MMO.

I've yet to see roleplayers actually roleplaying spontaneously in the game itself - you never see them standing on street corners in mob-heavy areas acting out a story in-character between/during fights. It's almost like they're afraid of the game itself and feel they have to do their roleplaying separately from actually playing the game, instead of trying to integrate in-character behaviour into their gaming - they really miss the point.

I used to GM a pen & paper roleplaying group in the 80s and 90s and tbh online roleplaying is a very poor cousin to that, in all the forms I've witnessed. Partly that's because MMOs just don't cater that well to players running their own adventures (though CoH does have the mission architect for planned-in-advance adventures), but I also think a lot of roleplayers just aren't interested in lore, problem-solving, cooperation, character evolution (as opposed to just writing a character and presenting it to their clique fully-formed, like a lot of RPers do) or just having a laugh - the things that used to drive pen & paper roleplaying - instead they all want to be precious little butterflies who are praised for their angsty creativity by the other caterpillars in their roleplaying cliques - so it's hardly surprising they don't mix well in the general population.

I've seen better off-the-cuff light roleplay in PuG teams than I've ever seen from the so-called "serious" roleplayers hanging around in their basement clubs. Someone turning a bar upside down in an MMO should be embraced as a spontaneous opportunity for some roleplaying around or in the midst of that event - if said RPers see it happening a lot then it's a clue that they're spending too much time in a static place pretending to be a soap-opera character, than out in the world pretending to be a superhero/adventurer (delete as applicable).

And I hope they realise we can read their badly-worded emotes, even when their chat is held in private channels. So embarrassing - and vomit-inducing - when their characters are trying to seduce each other.

I don't RP like "serious RPers" do - I don't see the point, it's so depressingly banal - but I do get a few laughs from people who don't even know they're RPing when they play along after I make an in-character observation about something in-game (usually involved with lore). Imho the best RP is not obvious RP.
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Posted: Feb 4th 2011 12:41PM StClair said

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@Valdamar :
First, RP is (IMO) pretty much what non-combat social gathering spots like bars are FOR. They're using that space for its intended purpose. It's the people who go there just to mess with RPers who are doing it wrong.

And yes, the RP that goes on in such public spaces often tends toward the lowest common denominator in terms of melodrama, cliche and triteness, ego, etc. But /we all have to start somewhere/. People who've never tried roleplaying at all need to learn (as you did, back in your tabletop days - I'm sure you had some terrible characters, just as I did), and those who already know how but don't have any contacts in THIS game can meet other like-minded players there and then take the RP out onto the grid. Think of it as a starting area, a tutorial zone, if you like.

Second, speaking as someone who RPs in all games but particularly in CO's sister game City of Heroes, it's often difficult to do more than toss off the occasional line of banter during gameplay. This isn't tabletop Champs, where talking is a literally free action and the Viper agents aren't going to beat you into the ground while you're composing your in-character speech. Sometimes it's nice to be able to focus entirely on capturing your character's voice without having to dodge energy blasts.

Finally, while my characters generally have better things to do with their down time than hang around in bars, not everyone is so obsessed and driven. For some, it's absolutely appropriate to spend some in-character time being social butterflies, in costume or not. Even comics aren't non-stop fighting with no quiet moments.
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Posted: Feb 3rd 2011 4:27PM Haleth said

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This isn't fair for the players who are truly playing to have a new MMO experience. F2P players shouldn't be cut off from their membership counterparts. I'm playing Champions Online as of now, and I know very respectful F2P players!

Posted: Feb 3rd 2011 4:31PM Issmir said

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@Haleth

They're not ideal solutions, for sure. And the thread on the forums is littered with people saying "I really love seeing all these new players, I just want them to be a little less antagonistic about my playstyle".

Ideally, people would have the good graces not to intrude on others gameplay. Not doing the old ninja kill/escort/pickup steal, not griefing them if they're RPing between themselves, not duelling or using the super-magnifier in front of someone in a costume contest. Until that happy day though, we might need some mechanics to help keep a measure of civility
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Posted: Feb 3rd 2011 4:28PM BrouCO said

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Hey, cool. CORP was mentioned!

I want to say that not all people who smash up a bunch of furniture are griefer.

Sometimes when someone's in a bad mood in-character or having a super-strength tantrum they need to have the chance to express that without being labeled as a griefer.

Posted: Feb 3rd 2011 4:31PM Issmir said

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@BrouCO

It's BROU!

The clowns get labelled as Griefers too. Not sure why.
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Posted: Feb 3rd 2011 4:38PM Issmir said

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@Tempes Magus

Good to see you're enjoying it. I have to admit the $200 I spent on a lifetime back in beta was an awesome deal, so I hope it goes on sale again soon too.

Posted: Feb 3rd 2011 4:57PM SiML said

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Who said anything about C-store prices rising?..

AFAIK they're not, It just happened that F2P launched with a 20% off deal till Feb 4th. The prices will revert to what they were before.

Posted: Feb 3rd 2011 5:26PM Caerus said

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As several people have mentioned, running around smashing tables and throwing chairs isn't necessarily griefing. There's a perk for destroying objects, for one, or maybe (like myself) they just like to AoE stuff down for *gasp* FUN.

I'm playing a dual blades hero right now, and I basically spam Sword Cyclone no matter where I am because the animation looks so awesome.

The best thing for RPers to do is to be polite to others in the area - there will always be console kiddies who love nothing more than destroying the gameplay of others, but I think approaching the issue with a whisper would solve many of these issues.

It's absolutely vital for the RP community to come across as friendly and polite, otherwise it's just undeserved entitlement. Invite these "disruptive" players to take part in your RP event, try and make them feel included and wanted instead of excluded. Trying to treat RP as a higher tier of gameplay is the wrong approach.

Posted: Feb 3rd 2011 10:52PM Dblade said

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@Caerus Standing in front of people while holding a couch and spinning it while they try to talk is griefing. I don't like it, but to be honest I'm grateful the game is actually busy again I put up with it.
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Posted: Feb 5th 2011 6:31PM Arcadian said

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@Dblade Frankly I wish the RPers would take their activities behind the paywall.

It'll just mean the game dies faster. Nobody gives a damn about your elitist RP activities.

Nobody will care after this game is gone. I was right when I predicted Revelation was originally going to be pay to play. That drove off half the population. I was right when I said the Adventure Packs were nothing more than farmable time sinks. I was right when I said the game would go F2P. And I'll be right when I say the game won't see 2012.

Enjoy your roleplay while you can.
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Posted: Feb 3rd 2011 5:41PM deadborder said

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I re-joined CO on a fresh F2P account, and I must say that I've found the reactions of the existing RP community to be rather disspointing. There's been a sort of elitist, holier-than-thou attitiude flowing amongst much of it of automatically assuming that any F2Per is a greifer, an idiot, a 12-year-old on a sugar buzz, a blantant cybersex troll or anything but a decent human being.

Unfortnately, the RP community in CO - and bear in mind that this is an attitude that I've found pretty consisten across numerous MMOs - tend to be whiny and superior, with a sense of entitlement or that they are some how "better" human beings for simply being RPers. I'm not saying that every member of the RP community is like this, but it's more of a prevailing attiude. The community as a whole needs to be more open and more accepting of others, especially newcomers and, yes, those on F2P accounts.

The other thing that the RP community needs to realise is that, at the best of times, they are still a minority within the playerbase. The overwhealming majority of players have no interest in RP or no real experience or even idea of what it is. Saying that Cryptic (or Blizz or SOE or whoever) needs to cater specifically to RPers comes back to that whiny entitlement mentioned beofre - pretty much deamanding that the company drops everythign to cater to a minorty within their playerbase.

Posted: Feb 3rd 2011 5:42PM Scotland Tom said

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The ideas suggested in this article that revolve around cordoning off the RP hotspots behind a paywall seem rather absurd to me. As a casual RPer with very little cash to my name I have to say that I'd be pretty incensed if I wanted to enjoy some F2P RP action in CO only to be met with a paywall preventing me from engaging in some truly meaningful RP.

I totally understand the desire to keep RPers relatively safe from potential griefing; I've had plenty of RP sessions interrupted or utterly ruined by a marauding griefer or two. While it may be tempting in a F2P game with a cash store to use paywalls as grief protection in the end there will still be griefers with cash in their pockets willing to pay their way in. Paywalls are simply barriers for the more dedicated griefers to climb over. Eventually they will and we the RPers will be back to square one.

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