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Reader Comments (18)

Posted: Feb 1st 2011 5:30PM Orekri said

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I have had very similar experiences with the community. The chat systems is horrible and actually making a group is way harder than just everyone meeting up and hoping it works out. That said the community has been nothing but helpful to newbies and friendly when it comes to grouping. That in turn has actually encouraged me to be more interactive with my community and have actually made friends outside of my own real life social circle.

Too bad the devs seem to go out of their way to try to make it difficult for you. If they manage to iron it out though the community so far has been great despite the shortcomings of the UI.

Posted: Feb 1st 2011 5:46PM wagonfactor said

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@Orekri you must not play villian on death and glory. the /shout consists of people comparing the game to wow, talking crap to each other, and being rude in general. i received one of the worst trollings of my life for trying to answer someones question. theres really no way to ignore people unless they are close to you. i finally just logged off and havent been on since. the community on villian death and glory is one of the worst ive seen in an mmo.
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Posted: Feb 1st 2011 6:28PM TheGreatMachine said

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@wagonfactor the work around for ignoring people is to /friend them and ignore them from your friend list menu.
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Posted: Feb 1st 2011 5:31PM Rooher said

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I will say that the problems brought up in this article should be or even must fix, what I think about when i read this, is how should they fix these problems without change or even removing the parts of the game that makes it a new and fun game?

I just feel that there is a danger of DCUO becoming a everyday MMO, not that those aren't fun but what they have now is a great game which is something that I think and many other and I would hate to see that change.

Posted: Feb 1st 2011 5:34PM Rooher said

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@Rooher and sorry about the awful writing, hopefully some of you will still understand what I meant. is there anyway to edit your comments?
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Posted: Feb 1st 2011 5:56PM mmogaddict said

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SOE customer service however only works for bewteeen 10~12 hours a day, outside these hours you're on your own. This is a particular problem with Oceanic or Ofpeak players. To get a problem fixed it took me 4 days of going back and forth as there was only a small window of an hour or two when both myself and SOE were insynch with each other.

Posted: Feb 1st 2011 6:57PM Joshinu said

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In my 25 levels of play through DCUO I've noticed that the chat function is indeed a bit annoying to work through, though not as bad as everyone seems to make it out to be imo. If you are grouping with people really the only frustration is if you are on a vent server and in game voice chat at the same time (there is an echo if you try talking to people on vent but not in your party when others that are in your party are also on vent). It would be nice to have an ignore list and a friend list and set the default list that shows up when you hit "O" but other than that it's not that horrible if you know the /commands for inviting and joining certain channels.

If I recall, watching videos from Totalbiscuit, there was an improved chat interface that was there at the tail end of Beta but it wasn't ready for the PS3 release so it was left out of the launch version of the game. Recently, however, it was announced that it was going to be worked out some in the next bit of content (it's a few posts down) so I'm pretty satisfied that they are listening and working things out that need a bit more polish.

In regards to the UI placement/tooltip and mouseover players issue, it's a bit of a double edged sword really. Could they have developed a more PC-ish UI with a mouse and tooltips and using the mouse to interact with players and the environment rather than hotkeys? Yes they could have, but it would destroy the almost FPS combat style completely. When you move your mouse, you move the camera, something that most mmos would have set as a left/right click or you are just stuck behind the character with a fixed point so you could move a cursor around the screen to UI elements or interacting with the world. This wouldn't work with the current combat system though since left/right clicks are bound to melee/ranged attacks. I guess they could bind those attacks to hotkeys other than the mouse and then move to a more traditional PC MMO camera movement to allow a cursor for interacting with the UI and the environment but I think that would really take away from the speed and sense of the combat that I love so much. Because, in the end, if you want to see what an ability does you have your abilities tab and loadout tab you can reference prior to placing it on your loadout and the "O" social pane to interact with other players and hotkeys for the environment and NPC's. So it works but it takes some getting used to or you will hate it (though I would like the ability to target other party members or friendly targets, especially for healing).

Either way, I'm glad to be playing DCUO in it's infancy and I look forward to how much greater this game will be in the future, less than a month out from launch and new content is already being revealed. This makes me an excited hero.

Posted: Feb 1st 2011 7:13PM Graill440 said

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So the obvious talking point is that the game is a 100% console effort. Out of that article what letters were sent to SOE on behalf of Gamers? What messages? "Needs more work"....."we see your glaring attempts to cover your console tracks and look forward to better pc functionality in the future"?

I am sure the letters i send will eventually wake up a bored congressman or lobby dreg considerig the amount of cash that is available in the game industry, and continuing to read this type of article will just make "that day" so worth the effort.

Posted: Feb 1st 2011 7:37PM Magnux said

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It seems that with the push of various games to come into the console world as well as the PC world the Dev's are developing for the console more heavily and forgetting about those of us who play on the PC. Take for example the issue facing FFXIV which was also a PS3 console and PC title, it launched on PC and it was suppose to launch simultaneously on the PS3. And what happen? It only launched on the PC and the wait for the PS3 release is still a wait since they do not have an immediate release date for it. Like DCUO the game was built around it being played on the console, you would of thought that for FF it would be a no brainer as SE has made many, many games for console systems but they screwed up thinking they could offer a single interface for both systems.

Maybe SE and SOE where talking to each other when the games were being made and decided to screw the PC player. Who knows what happen but lets hope that the other games in the future that wish to release on both PC and Console take these failures and not end up repeating them again. If we do not learn from history we are doomed to repeat it, in other words all you other MMO companies out there take note!

Posted: Feb 1st 2011 10:20PM Liltawen said

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I'm on V & V-nice place. I tried Death & Glory-got continually ganked and got bored with it (might go back when the UI/key system gets dealt with)..
I'm left handed and I hope they'll give us the ability to remap keys.I can manage but it's pretty torturous right now.
I think that changing the current mouse controls ( one of the few parts that I can manage) would really gut the way action is done in the game. Maybe some kind of hot-key/shift thing so that you could alternate between them on the fly?

Posted: Feb 2nd 2011 2:27AM Ekphrasis said

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@Liltawen

You can remap keys on the PC version - it's almost 'hidden' in the Settings menu though. You need to go to the right-most tab to find it. There's a primary key configuration column and a secondary key configuration column. Hope that helps - good luck!
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Posted: Feb 2nd 2011 3:00AM Revolting said

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I'm fairly fed up with seeing all of DCUO's problems being blamed on the PS3 version. The PS3 version is just as bad, if not worse. This game does not have a bad UI on PC because of PS3. It has a terrible UI on both PC and PS3 because of poor design decisions. Putting it another way, PS3 gamers are just as disgruntled with the UI as PC gamers, and have just as many (if not more for lack of mouse) issues with it. Blaming the games problems on the PS3 version is woefully ill-informed, completely inaccurate, and completely unconstructive, as PS3 players are in the same dire boat PC gamers are in, and all this does is fuel the animosity.

But that being said, I am not terribly surprised by this, as Massively's coverage of DCUO to date has been ENTIRELY PC-centric, which is utterly bizarre to me given that one of the key selling points of this title is finally bringing an MMO to consoles. (And yes, I know FF11 and Phantasy Star did it first, but like it or not, this is more mainstream and higher profile, and because of that is currently swaying back and forth between becoming a spectacular success or a sepectacular failure for it's delivery on both platforms.)

I say this not as a disgruntled PS3 gamer on the defensive; I am very much a PC MMO gamer, have been since M59 and UO, and still am now. But I thought I'd try this one on console just to see if it could be done. And you know what? It could be. It could be a huge success, if it weren't for the endless list of terrible problems plaguing it, some of which are poor design choices, but most of which are just plain broken. (Although many of the chat problems are down to terrible design, I'm fairly certain league text chat not actually functioning at all 70% of the time is not a design decision, at least.)

Mostly, though, as an MMO gamer, I'm fairly shocked and disappointed to see this site not only not representing or even investigating the much-fussed over console version of DCUO, but actively encouraging ill-informed fallacies and antagonistic misinformation about the console version being the root of all the game's problems, when in actual fact the game is buggered beyond belief on both platforms.

Especially when, in the case of this column specifically, the PS3 version provides a much more bizarre conundrum, which I was hoping the Community Detective would tackle:

There is no support at all for the PS3 version.

Incase that seems overly simplified, allow me to reiterate and confirm that the problem really is that basic: If you have the PS3 version and require technical or customer support, well, unfortunately, there is none. None at all. Absolutely nothing.

On the official DCUO website's forums, the official word is something to the effect of "For support for the PS3 version of DCUO, please call one of the following numbers:" and then lists the US and EU Sony Playstation support numbers.

So you call one of those numbers, and get Sony's Playstation helpdesk... and they have no clue about DCUO. "We can't help you I'm afraid," they say, and rightly so. "We didn't make DCUO, we're the Sony Playstation helpdesk. Do you have a problem with your cross media bar?"

"No!" you proclaim. "I have a problem with DCUO. It doesn't work. When I try to load in it disconnects me half the time. If I do get in it locks up frequently. If it doesn't lock up, I can't talk to anyone. Help!"

"Well, we don't deal with DCUO," they accurately inform you. "Talk to SOE."

So you call SOE, who are happy to help you right up until the point where you mention that you're playing on the PS3 version, not the PC version. "Stop right there!" they command. "We don't deal with the Playstation version. As per the announcement on our forum, you need to talk to Sony Playstation support."

And there you have it. SOE send you to Sony. Sony send you to SOE. SOE send you to Sony. Sony send you to SOE. You're going around in circles and nobody is willing to or even able to look into your problem. There is no tech or customer support for PS3 players. As utterly mind-boggling as that statement is, it's true. There simply is none, at all. Nothing. Too bad if you ever need either form of support.

Could we get that investigated?

Posted: Feb 2nd 2011 1:43PM Jef Reahard said

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@Revolting

It's a bit of stretch to label anything that I wrote as "actively encouraging ill-informed fallacies and antagonistic misinformation about the console version being the root of all the game's problems."

My opinion is that SOE set out to design for the console first, and didn't have the time/budget/desire to make a worthwhile PC interface as well. I've played thousands of PC and console games over the years, and DCUO's PC interface is clearly console-inspired. There's no antagonism there other than the baggage you apparently brought with you. It's simply an observation.

The how's and why's of that particular production decision are things that we haven't been able to get SOE to talk about, so we're left to speculate. If you have any facts you'd like to share relating to that, I'd love to see them, otherwise there's nothing particularly informed, constructive, or accurate about your own assertions.

Lastly, the reason why you don't see Massively talking about the PS3 version is because most of the staff here are PC gamers first and foremost. When you couple that with the fact that we don't get free copies of the games we cover, nor do we get free access to them from SOE or anyone else, you're left with console MMOs being relative second-class citizens until they become more prominent.

I will check up on the lack of PS3 support problems you mentioned, but as it's on my own dime, I can't guarantee that they won't have them fixed before I get there.
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Posted: Feb 2nd 2011 1:56PM Sente said

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@Revolting

I also have the PS3 version of the game and I am in very much agreement with the points you make. The interface for the PC may be bad, but that does not make it good just because you use it on the PS3.

It is bad because it is a bad interface regardless of platform. And I find it often to be sluggish, buggy or lacking proper feedback. For all the problems that people to have with the PC version, it still sounds like it is better off.

I certainly do think that there seem to be good elements in the game and it looks very nice, but the PS3 interface annoys me enough that my play sessions tend to be very short and I certainly will not continue with a subscription after the first 30 days as the game is now.
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Posted: Feb 2nd 2011 5:41PM Jef Reahard said

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@Revolting

To add another update, I did pick up the PS3 version at my local Gamestop this afternoon, and I'll be spending some time with it over the next couple weeks. Look for a PS3 DCUO examination very soon.
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Posted: Feb 2nd 2011 6:24PM Revolting said

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@Jef Reahard

Hey Jef, thanks for the response.

I don't really have anything further to add, but I did want to say that, yes, I realise that for Massively staff, this is very much a labour of love and done out of your own pockets, and that you don't have free PS3s or MMO subscriptions thrown at you on a regular basis. I do not wish to appear ungrateful for the effort (and personal expense) you all put into it; although I do not always agree with everything that is written here, I do appreciate the incredible amount of passion and personal investment put into making this site work. So, thanks for that, and apologies if I came across as unappreciative or petulant in my previous post.

I also realise that the MMO console market is not most MMO gamer's focus, including Massively staff. Heck, it hasn't been mine until DCUO (and won't be for much longer of SOE don't pull their socks up.) Console MMO gaming is still the budding minority, riddled with uncertainty and still very experimental in practice. Maybe DCUO will change that. Maybe FF14 will when (if?) it launches on PS3. Or maybe the entire concept will fall over dead. But either way, it's cool to know you'll have a look at it, so thanks for that too.

As for the PC verison of DCUO being hampered by design considerations for the PS3 iteration, yes, of course I realise that there is some impact. Of course there are only six power slots available because of the PS3's controller limitation. Of course there is an over-reliance on button mashing and combos because it's more of an action game than your typical MMO, again because of desire to make it relevant to console gamers. There are many design decisions in DCUO that were made clearly out of desire to cater to both sides of the market. To some this makes it seem simplistic and dumbed down, to others it seems more accessible and less mystifying. There were always going to be sacrifices made on both platforms in the name of "universal" appeal. And these things should all be fairly common knowledge for anyone who plays the game; it is and always has been a multi-platform project, and players probably won't enjoy it if they expect it to be anything other than that. It was never going to be a PC-centric title, and anyone who expects it to behave like one will be disappointed. This is pretty much the same issue a lot of people had with FF14 (myself included), disliking that it was designed from the ground up to be console-friendly as well as a PC game.

That's not really what I'm talking about, though, when I say "problems blamed on the PS3 verison." All those things are design choices, not problems. They're the way it was intended to be. Those things were done that way intentionally, be it rightly or wrongly, to supposedly work well on both platforms. But that isn't the issue. Intentional decisions made to make it work on one platform or the other aren't the problem.

What I don't accept is the actual genuine problems being blamed solely on the PC version being gimped for the PS3 gamers. The chat interface is appalling on both platforms. The UI is unresponsive on both platforms. The chat channels are unreliable on both platforms. Reward mail is often not received on both platforms. Disconnects, broken pvp queues, leagues regularly not being able to communicate, those are all problems on both platforms. They are not concessions made on the PC version to make the PS3 version work. They are simply either executed poorly or completely broken, on both platforms, and it's neither one's fault.

These are the things I object to being blamed on the PS3. Not the design choices that clearly were made with console gameplay in mind, but the things that are just broken or poorly crafted. I've seen those things inaccurately blamed on the PS3 version in various places, and yes, it bugs the hell out of me. I apologise if my rant against this exploded unjustly in your direction, and accept that in a knee-jerk reaction, I may have been projecting my grievances upon you unfairly... sorry for that.

But nonetheless, there is a world of difference between mutli-plat design decisions and broken systems that simply don't work, yet both appear to be blamed on the PS3 version equally

As for the other beef I grumbled about, any light you can shed on the abominable excuse for support PS3 gamers have for DCUO will be greatly received, I suspect.
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Posted: Feb 3rd 2011 2:03PM Magnux said

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@Revolting

Breath Revolting breathe, count to 10 my friend lol. I understand your frustration as it seems that the problem exists in not just DCUO but across most MMO's they are trying to do multi-platform. They seem to limit themselves because they want to keep the UI constant across all the platforms they are launching. While I understand their decision in a business sense we the player keep on having to deal with it in the game world and it just turns us off from what could of been a beautiful game. In their attempt to give all platforms the same game play experience they end up annoying one or the other. I do not understand why it would be so hard to deliver the same game play and different UI experience across the platforms. Yes I understand that this would mean patches would have to be done with each individual platform in mind but hey this whole everything should look the same is not working out so fix it already.

While I applaud SOE for their simultaneous launch on both platforms the UI system is broken and the player base is not happy about it. Same thing happen with SE and FFXIV they would of been the first to launch a major game on both platforms but the simple fact was that the game has UI issues and even after 4 months of operations its not fixed yet. They are trying and it is improving but it has made many players that would of been here for a while just go on to another MMO, and if SOE does not do something about the gripes the playerbase has well the same will happen.
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Posted: Feb 2nd 2011 12:38PM DarthDan said

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DeveloperBob: "Sam, I'm really thinking we should make the UI more robust and intuitive."

DeveloperSam: "Let's fini#####."

DeveloperBob: "If you're going to speak to me with THAT kind of language, you can just forget it!"

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