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Reader Comments (46)

Posted: Jan 31st 2011 6:20PM Eric Francis said

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@Daelen Players dont dictate where pvp takes place, thats something devs do for the most part.

For example, in warhammer, the devs put all the experience points in battlegrounds, so thats where the playerbase ends up. Whos gonna go out and try to world pvp when the xp is 1/10 what you can get grinding battlegrounds (not to mention ten times more boring after 2 weeks)

In rifts, they could choose to make warfront XP trivial compared to the xp you could get open world pvping if that was a direction they choose to take.

It seems they wanna go the route that warhammer devs took and look where that led them. I dont understand why its so hard to understand that you cannot recreate WoW's success by copying it, because the model is almost 6 years old. People are fed up with the same ole thing.
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Posted: Jan 31st 2011 7:20PM Urban Monkey said

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@Eric Francis
Who said "people" are fed up with the same ole thing? Most people love the same old thing. They love the familiar, the predictable. That's why you have 7 seasons of Buffy the Vampire slayer and 22 seasons of Survivor.

What Rift has is polish and quality. The UI is really good, the graphics are good, gameplay familiar and the dev's are changing the game faster than I thought possible. It has potential. Other than that, it's pretty much the same ole thing.

Regarding open world massive PVP, it is one of the worst ideas to be implemented in an MMO. Why?

A) There is nothing heroic about joining a group of 100 players to fight another 100 players. The individual does not matter. People want to be the hero after a day's work. Tanking an instance boss makes me feel exactly that. In the example above I am just one of the zerg. I can fall asleep on my keyboard and we can still win.

B) Even if you enjoy being part of the zerg, unless it's a battleground type instance, you will almost never have two equal sides. In warhammer you normally had the 80 people train against 25 random people. Great fun for both sides... :(

The basis of any competition sport is an equal team. Skill and tactics should define the winner, not number advantage. 5 average NBA players will always win a basketball game again the word's 3 best players. It's just not a fair competition and thus not fun to play or watch.

Random world PVP is only nice once in a while for keeping you on your toes. But that's pretty much it IMHO.
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Posted: Jan 31st 2011 7:34PM Eric Francis said

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@Urban Monkey I mean, of course different people love different things. But im pretty sure warhammer tanked is because it copied wow battlegrounds grind but from level 1 and people were fed up with that.

To me, world pvp was the finest pvp experience ive had anywhere, particularly WoW during the march 2005-June 2005 era, just before they patched in Battlegrounds.

200 alliance players trying to kill the undead King in the undead city and 50-75 of us defending it with NPCs and winning, that was truly epic. 50 players getting ported by warlocks underwater in front of the alliance town Dalaran and everyone with underwater breath spell getting ready to attack the town, that to me were memorable experiences. That required creativity and cooperation. I can honestly say i dont really remember a particular epic BG although i did have fun for a while in them, but nothing compared to the fun ive had in world pvp.

I guess if the devs dont cater to world pvp, then this is not the game for me. And to be frank, id rather not be around a community that thinks grinding BGs 24/7 for months on end is fun.
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Posted: Jan 31st 2011 8:34PM Nephilim said

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@Eric Francis

It's fine if a game doesn't cater to a certain demographic. However, don't try to condescend the player base simply because you think your tastes are better than others. Oh, and not all of us are going to be grinding BGs 24/7.

So.. don't let the door hit you on the way out. :D
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Posted: Jan 31st 2011 8:41PM PaterFrog said

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@Eric Francis "But im pretty sure warhammer tanked is because it copied wow battlegrounds grind but from level 1 and people were fed up with that."

I can't agree with that. It's the most fun I've ever had in PvP, and I only stopped because the overall quality didn't keep up with it. I love the notion of leveling by battlegrounds, and while World PvP may sound exciting, I haven't ever in my almost 10 years of MMO gaming come across a open world match I'd switch for a round in a battleground.
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Posted: Jan 31st 2011 10:53PM Eric Francis said

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@PaterFrog Well more power to you if you enjoyed grinding Black Fire Basin past the first 50 times you played the BG. After that, the thought of having to grind scenarios like that with an alt to find pvp action cemented my decision to quit the game.
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Posted: Feb 1st 2011 12:46AM Mandrake said

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@Eric Francis In beta 5 I found the best xp in rifting.
Also i cant wait to follow an invasion from my own faction npc's in a contested zone against a hub of the other faction, should be fun, new, different pvp or pve depending on if there are competitors around... AND i dont care about the xp gain from it.
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Posted: Jan 31st 2011 6:20PM Irem said

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Woohoo! :D I've been dying to play since the last beta ended.

...Uh oh.

Posted: Jan 31st 2011 6:23PM Eric Francis said

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@Irem If you are that much into it, how come you didnt pre-order? You could be in beta right now
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Posted: Jan 31st 2011 7:44PM Randomessa said

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@Eric Francis

....no, you couldn't, as there is no beta going on right now.
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Posted: Jan 31st 2011 7:50PM aurickle said

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@Eric Francis
Not true. I have preordered and I'm not able to play right now. Preordering guarantees access to all beta events and the head start. But when a beta event isn't running (like now) you still have to wait for the next one.
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Posted: Jan 31st 2011 9:47PM Eric Francis said

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@aurickle My bad on the pre-order = beta. Thats what some players were saying in-game, and seeing that trion closed the beta on a saturday morning, i assumed they were right because it seemed a way to get people to pre-order and keep playing beta throughout the weekend.
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Posted: Jan 31st 2011 6:27PM Eric Francis said

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I guess the reason they are copying the WoW model would be that they dont plan on it being a huge success, just planning on playing it safe? Like my assumption is wrong that they wanna re-create WoW's success and they are simply satisfied with making some money and not of piles of it.

Posted: Jan 31st 2011 7:51PM Dblade said

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@Eric Francis It's not a bad strategy to just make a good, if not innovative game.
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Posted: Jan 31st 2011 7:56PM aurickle said

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@Eric Francis
They're not copying the WoW model. For example, WoW discouraged open world PvP by slowly but surely removing anything players felt was an objective. You can't attack Crossroads or Astranaar because the guard spawn is insane. You can't fight in Booty Bay or one of the other neutral cities because the guards REALLY put the smack down on you. WoW has effectively funneled all PvP into the battlegrounds.

Rift has battlegrounds, too. That doesn't mean they're copying WoW, though. Rift also has wardstones, which are PvP objectives in nearly every quest hub. Players can defeat the wardstone and completely wipe out all NPC's in the area until such time as the defending players manage to take the wardstone back. In fact, I think that the wardstone even ends up spawning some of your own faction's NPC's to help keep the players from taking it back too easily. WoW never had anything like this. Even before they actively channeled players away from world objectives, the NPC's that you killed just respawned a minute later.

During my time in this last beta I saw several times when Freemarch was under attack from Guardians.
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Posted: Jan 31st 2011 9:56PM Eric Francis said

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@aurickle Im still waiting to see if the incentive is enough for people to actively world pvp. In WoW vanilla, you didnt need incentive, the fun was enough. But now that in newer games you can level up with battlegrounds, unless the xp reward is at least as high in open world pvp, i dont see people doing it alot.

Thats very important for me, im not paying 50$ for another ticket on a pvp failboat like warhammer.
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Posted: Feb 1st 2011 12:06AM Valdur said

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@Eric Francis

or may be they copied the WoW formula to get the max people to give their game a shot knowing that may be half of them will leave after 6 months and then they will tailor a game with more depth for those who are still playing !!!
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Posted: Feb 1st 2011 1:11AM cforciea said

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@Eric Francis
The way you talk, you'd think that World of Warcraft was actually innovative and not just a rehash of previous games. Who says taking ideas from other games and polishing them up can't make for wild success?
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Posted: Jan 31st 2011 6:30PM Gaugamela said

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Sweet! Couldn't play in the last Beta so I'll make sure to log in and enjoy the game if I have time.

Posted: Jan 31st 2011 7:23PM Doba said

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Oh well I can get my Guardian to 30! :D

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