Star Wars Galaxies producer's letter talks galactic civil war, Officer updates

@Mr Angry

I would actually pay for a Pre NGE server, still after all these years.

@Mr Angry

Let it go. It's been over 5 years since the NGE happened. 5 years, with the pre-NGE game lasting barely 2 1/2. 5/7(nearly 5/8) of the game's lifespan has been in the NGE. All this "wahhhhh pre-NGE servers" crap got old years ago, and is never going to happen. It'll happen the day Blizzard introduces pre-BC servers(I've seen WoW fans cry for t hose too).

@Comrade Domovoi

Just because you don't like SWG's current friends doesn't mean no one does. Maybe SWG isn't hanging out with the cool kids anymore, but he still has friends. You didn't like that NGE friend he started hanging out with, so you started calling him the worst person ever every time anyone spoke of him. Kinda rude man. Let SWG hang out with whoever he wants, even if they're not people you like.

Did I do that "SWG and the CU and NGE are people" thing right?

@wagonfactor

It's had 5 years to fix most of the NGE bugs. The game's fine now. Most of the NGE haters quit a week after it hit and never went back to experience it. The game may not amaze you, but it's not a turd. And if the ground game bugs you, the space stuff is like a completely different game. I went back for a couple months recently, and it's fine. It's far from the "worst game ever" that most of the old NGE haters claim it to be.

Everything RogueJedi86 just said. :D

@RogueJedi86

Now people are downvoting me just for not talking of the NGE like it's an abomination? Good grief.

@DancingCow

Heh. Trust me, you don't. Half of what you just described was half-developed or even non existant back then. Know how many vehicles were added post-NGE? More than double what the game had previously. Same with decorations (housing and otherwise), appearance options, and even a good chunk of space content. Player made quests are only a year or so old.

SWG now is so greatly improved as a "themepark" MMO (with heavy sandbox elements) that it dwarfs what it had as a sandbox game, in every aspect. The "nine professions" system produces more versatile and viable builds than the 32 profession system could plausibly hope to match. Smugglers in the Pre-CU game were a joke, as were Carbineers, Pistoleers, Rangers, Medics, Brawlers, Swordsmen, and every other profession that was not Teras Kasi Master, Bounty Hunter, Rifleman, COmbat Medic or Pikeman at various times. In fact, if you were not either a Jedi or combination of the above few professions, you were useless in combat.

Moreover, if you were a Jedi you were guaranteed to be inherently better than any other class alone, and any other classes in combination including Bounty Hunter combinations. The limitation on Jedi was only one of time, meaning that in order to compete in the only endgame that existed--a meaningless form of PvP that was largely uncontrolled and without objective--you would *need* to attain Jedi or rely on the flavor of the month Bounty Hunter combination, and therefore eventually more players would be Jedi than not! And people complained that there were too many Jedi in the NGE! Hah!

Even better, unlocking Jedi would allow access to a second character slot. I don't think I need to explain why nearly every Jedi player had a crafter alt. With crafters being largely self-sufficient and uniquely required by the server, a Jedi player could not only become supremely rich by way of their crafter overcharging out the wazoo for everything, but they could eat their delicious cake of combat near-invulnerability as well! Without even abusing the Force Ranking System, aka a series of fight clubs to make certain Jedi double if not triple in power!

And here's the kicker: It was all "fine." People enjoyed it. They were happy in their little themepark that disguised itself as a sandbox, just as they are happy in Fallen Earth, Eve and other games under the same circumstances. The only difference between a themepark MMO and the contemporary idea of a sandbox MMO is that the themepark shows you what to do via in-game instruction, while the sandbox shows you what to do via player instruction. People see a lack of formal questing progression and diverse array of skills and think, "Hey! I can be what I want to be, and experience the game in my own way!" What they do not realize is that they cannot be what they want to be, nor experience the game in their way, because game balance will not allow it. You cannot be a Shotgun/Pistol mutant in Fallen Earth and experience the game in the same capacity that a Rifle tech can. You cannot "waste" skillpoints to try out a skill that you enjoy looking at. You cannot go straight from small fighter to large frigate in Eve without spending inordinate amounts of time trying to train skills. You cannot even be assured that your character will ever be on par with another player's, if he started playing just one day before you did.

That is not to say that sandbox games cannot exist, nor do they not exist. There certainly can be and probably are (though I cannot name any, out of lack of experience with them), however the mechanics cannot be similar to that of pre-CU SWG or Fallen Earth or Eve. In a true sandbox game, all playstyles are rewarded in the same amount, all abilities and configurations are balanced with each other, and the stereotypical "concept character" is the only character type possible. The way to do this is not to overwhelm with options, but to make each and every option viable. Start small, then grow.

That went on so many different tangents, so TL;DR SWG is much closer to a sandbox game as it is now, with all of its gameplay options being viable (ie professions including their expertise builds; PvP, PvE, noncombat and RP playstyles; the space aspect of the GCW coming soon; etc.) than it was in its pitifully balanced pre-NGE state.

@DancingCow: Pre-CU had a lot of potential, and I enjoyed the sandbox PVP endgame. But the fact is that SWG was launched with bugs, missing features, etc.

Contrary to the NGE-fanboi's claims I don't think Pre-CU was some sort of golden age. It was a good concept and I enjoyed myself immensely. But Pre-CU just never caught up with the pace it lost by SWG launching before the game was done.

As for CU and NGE...man, when the SOE-drones and NGE-fanbois tell me that SWG is a fine game, etc.several years later all I can think is "Yeah, and how many months--adding to years--worth of subscription cash did you pay for SOE to finally get it's collective act together?"

Not to mention that I know for a fact that SOE's customer service is as nasty as ever and Smed's, shall we say, creative interpretation of reality leaves one less than certain of where things stand month-to-month.

I won't tell people how to enjoy their MMO. And I won't tell players where they should put their cash.

But I myself pay for games, not GAME DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMS.

@stealthrider

Thank you for this post! +1 to you.

@winterborn

What did the NGE steal from you? And what lies? The only real lie was the fact that they didn't tell people about the upcoming NGE when they were selling "Trials of Obi-Wan", and they gave refunds to people who felt lied to in that situation. I can't think of anything they stole you from you.

And is this really relevant to this producer's letter topic? Seems like the Massively staff should just delete these "I hate the NGE" posts since it's been 5 years and these posts have nothing to do with the producer's letter or whatever else is going on with SWG.

@winterborn Gotta agree 100% SOE's veracity for truth-telling is downright the ONLY relevant issue to anything posted about their MMOs. And as far as the lies and "stealing", I feel ya. It has been gone over to death, but without hijacking this comments section, I'll refresh everyone's collective memory and simply note that:

*SOE lying to it's customers;
*lying about it's customers and grossly misrepresenting their concerns;
*rigging forum polls (and in several cases resetting them repeatedly to get the results they wanted to fake player support);
*the abuse inflicted on customers by the devs, mods, and customers service reps who refused to acknowledge known game issues;
*and the endless "we swear we're gonna fix it, just keep giving us money" (

@Matix (got cut off)

(taking money for services and then not delivering on those servces being a form of fraud in many places, ergo "stealing" in quotation marks)

doesn't exactly support the idea that you can trust a word that comes out of these folks mouths. Again, there's a lot more depth to this, but I'll trust everyone can Google search and look up article after article, post after post, blog after blog, Massively comment after Massively comment outlining the SWG debacle.

I hate rehashing the SWG situation, A LOT. In fact, I hate rehashing the situation almost as I hate the SOE-fanboi lie that "it didn't happen." But if you can't believe what SOE tells you, what the kark good is this or any other letter?