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Reader Comments (11)

Posted: Jan 23rd 2011 8:52PM ScottishViking said

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So, correct me if I'm wrong, but could you conceivably ninja mine someone's mission? I've gone on a few ninja salvaging missions by scanning down wrecks. Couldn't the same principle apply to mining? (Not that I'm suggesting this is an efficient use of time...easier to get the missions yourself.)

Posted: Jan 23rd 2011 10:36PM Ace Noble said

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@ScottishViking
Actually I have done what you call "ninja mine" someone else deadspace mission. I did it a few times because I was curious as to how it would turn out. There are a few snags.

First, if the missioner turns in the mission the area will disappear the moment you leave it. Having two accounts with a ship to mine and one to haul does make it a little more practical. Second, it is rarely possible to warp right the asteroid and it's not uncommon for rocks to be 45 to 85 kilometers away from the warp in point.

So yes, it has been done. Doing it is just a novelty, of course. There are many more practical way to access hidden rocks.
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Posted: Jan 23rd 2011 11:04PM ScottishViking said

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@Ace Noble

Yeah, makes sense. I'm just not sure that mission mining is really all that safe. I've been scanned down and attacked more than a few times while doing missions. No reason to suspect that this would be different while mining!
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Posted: Jan 24th 2011 3:52AM Dblade said

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@ScottishViking You can't be attacked in hi-sec without concording, and you don't really need Marauders to use a mission for mining. I think L2s or so will have decent asteroids. You clear the mission with a cruiser/bc, and then bring in your barge to mine.

It's not really that good. Most mission minerals you can get in hisec anyways, but you can avoid suicide ganks easier. Even if they scan you down, they need to hit the warp in, then go through accel gates, then get to you when you could be 50km or more away. It's also safer to jetcan mine in one. Most people ninjaing are looking for marauders or bc/bs, not exhumers, which they think are in the belts.

You can try it if you want variety, but plain old mining probably will be better yields.
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Posted: Jan 24th 2011 2:02AM aniladene said

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it is rarely possible to warp right the asteroid and it's not uncommon for rocks to be 45 to 85 kilometers away from the warp in point.

Posted: Jan 24th 2011 3:55AM Dblade said

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I'm trying lowsec solo mining. It's kind of eh, because most T1 barges aren't strong enough to repulse cruiser rats, let alone the rare BS spawn, and those same barges are horrible for align time. It also sucks because jetcans and giant secure containers are big honking markers a barge frequents here, and that will lure pirates in.

Working on using a cruiser for now in 0.4, but we'll see how it goes.

Posted: Jan 24th 2011 6:36AM Oranda said

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I'm missing one mining option in empire, burrow mining. There small combat sites that spawn everywhere in empire. The ones containing veldspar usually end with "burrow"

You can easily find them with the on-board scanner, or have a scout drop a probe to find them all in 1 go. And I have seen systems that spawn like 3 or 4 of them at the same time.

It works really well if you need huge amounts of tritanium. Takes about 3 hulks and a orca to clear one out in under 3 hours. Just keep in mind that once you kill the rats inside and you warp out, the site will despawn.

Posted: Jan 24th 2011 12:11PM Ashen Spiral said

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While the intensive refining array seems like the perfect option at first glance, it actually is anything but that. Intensive refining arrays have a hard cap of 75% yield while basic refining arrays have a cap of 35% yield. You might think that with refining skills you could improve this, but you would be mistaken. The hard cap takes effect after all skill calculations are done, meaning no matter if you have perfect skills or refining implants etc, you will NEVER get more than 75% yield out of an intensive array, which is ridiculously low. The only exception is when you are refining ice, which completely ignores the hard caps altogether.

Clearly CCP made something of a bad design choice with these arrays and never came back to revisit them. The rorqual's compression feature is the only way to get 100% yield (after transporting compressed goods to an actual refining station) in a smaller package. Of course even this has a downside, as it takes ice products to fuel the compression process and lots of the rorqual pilot's time.

Random relevant thread I found to back up what I'm saying:
http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1352704/page/1

Posted: Jan 24th 2011 12:37PM Brendan Drain said

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@Ashen Spiral From my own testing while living in a wormhole for a year, I think we found that the 75% is not a hard cap but actually a yield multiplier. What happens is your normal refine rate is multiplied by 0.75 (75%), making a 100% refine rate produce 75% instead. But if your skills are high enough, your normal refine rate will be over 100% so you can get over 75% from the array. At NPC stations you can see your maximum refine rate at over 100% but the actual return is capped at 100%. If your refining skills produce a yield of 112%, for example, you'd get 112*0.75=84% yield from the intensive refining array. You'll never get close to 100% from the array, but I'm pretty certain that there isn't an automatic 25% waste on it.

Another issue to consider is logistics. The time and effort it takes to get the ore out of the system has an inherent value. If you have to spend an hour hauling ore through wormholes in an industrial ship for every three or four hours mining, you'd make more ISK per hour played by just refining the ore at a starbase. A Rorqual can compress the ore to radically reduce the hauling time, which is great if you can get a Rorqual into the system and be sure of extracting it once the asteroid fields are empty. But it's extremely difficult to get a Rorqual into a class 1, 2 or 3 wormhole, the only reliable way being to build the ship inside the system. If you can't get the Rorqual back out again once the belts are empty, you'll be forced to either self-destruct it for the 40% base insurance or wait and hope for new gravimetric spawns. Neither situation is ideal.

I definitely consider the Intensive Refining Array to be a very viable option for wormhole operations.
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Posted: Jan 24th 2011 12:39PM Brendan Drain said

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@Ashen Spiral Of course now you've made me want to go and test refining arrays to be sure :p
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Posted: Jan 24th 2011 1:26PM Ashen Spiral said

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@Brendan Drain Yes you've made me want to go test it as well. It's too bad I'm now in a corp with no POS anchoring roles. When I was in a different corp with roles in the past I was having issues with the yield on an intensive array. I of course searched the forums for information and found multiple threads claiming that it was hard capped at 75%. This made sense to me from what I was seeing, but your explanation could also match the results I was getting. Either way the yield would be significantly lower than what you'd get at an npc station with full standing or a 0.0 refining station.

I agree that the logistics of moving ore out of a wormhole or working with a rorqual would be tough compared to just running it through an array. However the the mineral loss generated by the arrays still seems far too steep to me, especially when you compare it to the isk/hour someone might get from running wormhole sites or harvesting gas. In 0.0, players can extract the exact same ores with perfect refining at conquerable and player built stations. Add to this the fact that the more they mine the more hidden belts spawn. Taking all this into account it feels like wormhole mining needs an upgrade in the form of better refining arrays. That's just my opinion anyways.
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