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Reader Comments (45)

Posted: Jan 21st 2011 6:46PM The Ogre said

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Free-for-all PvP? Combined with permadeath? T'Hell with that crap.

Posted: Jan 21st 2011 8:13PM Saker said

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@The Ogre
I have to agree, even though the setting sounds interesting this might as well be titled "grief-quest online"
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Posted: Jan 21st 2011 6:47PM Baromega said

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"but Johannessen hopes that the players will band together to protect each other and mete out justice."

That is possibly the most naive thing I have ever heard.

Posted: Jan 21st 2011 6:47PM semajin said

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It's hard to determine whether a developer decides to discuss including permadeath in their game as a publicity stunt, or if they truly believe it will enrich the experience. Obviously they are aiming for a niche title, as most of the sandbox titles today are, but adding permadeath would only serve to make them a niche within a niche.

Posted: Jan 21st 2011 7:04PM Beau Hindman said

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Hmmm...this is interesting. I wonder, though, if the problem with this type of permanent death is that it makes everyone a victim to the player who literally has the most time, or power, or largest group of friends.

In real life we established towns and police forces with a code of conduct in place, based essentially on kindness. (Of course, it doesn't always work that way.) In a video game, you do not literally answer to another person, so morality or feeling "bad" about something is easy to turn off.

I might have missed it, but what about accounts? If you can make more than one character, or continue to make characters, then all that happens is the same that happens in games like Darkfall: players simply find a new cap by avoiding the usage of armor. Since armor can be stolen, players just get used to playing and fighting without it. The system creates a new, yet lower, standard.

In other words, would players just act as it is a FPS, allowing death to just be a pause between fights? Would the easily-achievable become the new high level? Would players care much about anything?

We've all seen how players play in other "harsh" games -- the penalties do not stop bad behavior/attacks/griefing. If anything, it encourages it simply because the "good" players actually fear the penalty.

Still, as a Wurm lover, I am very interested! :)

Beau

Posted: Jan 21st 2011 7:05PM goatfoam said

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Sounds like a griefers paradise. Might be worth checking out, although the guy in the video seems to be looking at the MMO community through rose-tinted glasses when he talks about the players being the "fonts of justice" for the game. I can already see hordes of newly rolled suicide gankers charging across Massachusetts out to ruin someones day.

Posted: Jan 21st 2011 7:05PM madbassman39 said

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I love the novelty idea of the fact that a group of people make a town and make their own rules. If someone kills someone then the people ban together to kill the murderer. It sounds really cool, but in actuality you will get a bunch of a-holes killing people before others get the chance.

Posted: Jan 21st 2011 7:06PM Jade Effect said

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Anyone can dream up his fantasy game and say, "Yes! I'm gonna make that game and somehow it'll be that game everyone and their cats have been dreaming of all this time!". Only a very select few make games that are commercially successful.

I wish Mr Johannessen all the best.

Posted: Jan 21st 2011 8:07PM macscarfe said

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@Jade Effect But that's not what Paradox have done, they have seena niche and there heading straight for it.

Also i don't think commercial success is their main priority with this game, there a much larger company than this one product and i think this will be one of the main planks for launching their Paradox Connect service. Along with Dreamlords plus an Online CCG based on their main strategy game ... and if we all get lucky whatever the Mount & Blade guys do (if anything) on the larger multiplayer level.

But that's just my best guess based on limited intel gleamed from being a consistant customer of theirs for the last 5 or 6 years.
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Posted: Jan 21st 2011 7:15PM PurpleCliff said

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This could be really really awesome .. or bad.

Posted: Jan 21st 2011 7:19PM Joshua Przygocki said

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...But can I kill John Proctor?

Posted: Jan 21st 2011 7:22PM nomoredroids said

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Really looking forward to this, actually.

Posted: Jan 21st 2011 7:55PM Djonk said

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Everyone always say FFA pvp = griefers heaven. Is it really? No, get on with it.

@Beau
Isn't that the point? The playground is set to play with low level armour or tech. If you bring more to the game "than you can afford to loose" it is up to you.

It creates different levels of engagements. You will never be stuck in low levels. If you are you will quit the game. With no progress it is an fps, that is just an aggro outlet. If you want to be in that space, AND you want it to be persistant you will try to play the game to your advantage. Only a fool bring the shiniest insta-win-sword/ship to a game in a ffa-environment. Bu then again, what fun is a insta-win sword in an engagement anyways? Does it make you feel big? Played the longest? Bought the most in-game-credits?

The best engagements are on equal terms (sort of equal, with tricks up theit sleeves).

A wurm player is also pvp'ing in a sense. You have bandages, food or moss, that you control. Who can have it, who can not. Who can build in yor village etc. Invite or expel. It is all there.

Maybe it is a matter of many fast (teaching) deaths, or slow boring deaths that make you never wanna come back to a game.

Posted: Jan 21st 2011 7:57PM Rindon said

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All I can say is, naked noob ganks.

This has happened in a few full loot games I have played in. A guild of people make alts, give them a weapon, and just beat the tar out of full dressed people caught off gaurd because they out number them 10-1. Easy way to gain money/equipment. With perma-death, this will be a big problem.
See a person harvesting for hours? Call your buddies up and wait until he is almost done then gank. Like that shiny sword he has? Call your buddies up and start streaking.

Still, I will most likely play this game. Gotta love full loot AND perma death.

Posted: Jan 21st 2011 8:00PM DancingCow said

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"Player buildings can be razed and their corpses looted, but Johannessen hopes that the players will band together to protect each other and mete out justice."

Oh he _hopes_ ? Well of course everything will be alright then :P

Can we count the number of MMOs which have been designed around an assumption that players will perform a particular function, and then fall apart when that doesn't happen?

Seriously, a permadeath game is going to attract the most sociopathic of MMO'ers not those likely to band together and mete out justice.

On the plus side he'll be putting permadeath to the test. I'm fairly certain this is a bad idea for all of the obvious reasons. But it's always interesting to test a theory.

Posted: Jan 21st 2011 8:05PM WickedAZ said

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Woohoo....let me stop cutting myself for a moment. Count Me IN! :)

Posted: Jan 21st 2011 8:06PM aurickle said

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@Tempes Magus
I don't see how it could work. Not realistically. All it takes is a griefer to get the drop on you and you lose out on potentially years of effort. Meanwhile, said griefer -- even if the community bands together and kills him -- might have only invested a few hours into the game.

When someone with minimal time invested can wreck the major time investments of others, there WILL be people who create accounts for that explicit purpose. Even if the game were to ban you for life the moment you get killed, there will still be people who choose to do this for the simple reason that they have been able to make someone else's life miserable with no real loss to themselves. So what if they can never log back in again? Neither can the people they wrecked! That's all the encouragement some of these griefers need.

Permadeath is an interesting theory. But never when combined with the opportunity for someone else to inflict it upon you.

Posted: Jan 21st 2011 8:20PM eLdritchZ said

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well since it seems the game is going to be somewhat like Wurm, I don't think it's going to be that bad in terms of suicidal ganking retards... you know? the likes that play darkfall, etc... because they'll get bored with crafting items and building shelters before they get enough stuff to kill anyone

Could work... could not work... let's wait and see

Posted: Jan 21st 2011 8:59PM Theodorus said

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Here's another working title for Mr. Johannesson:
"Lord of the Flies Online"...

Posted: Jan 21st 2011 9:57PM Averice said

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Eh, if you do get a guild together that really does "band together" then even when you die and they kill the guy who killed you, they'll give you your loot back.

I guess that's what he's hoping for. The community aspect he wants with protection isn't just about revenge or deterrence, it's about not losing everything when you die.

There's also the notion that "it's not really worth it to back stab a group" because sure you may grab a few big items, but what exactly can you do with those now? You have a few options: Eventually die and the items just go back to the group you stole them from or to someone else. Destroy them so no one can ever have them again. Or you're working with your own group and you stole the items in order to share there. Only the 2nd one is really griefing, and I really doubt that you'll be able to just create a new toon, get invited to some guild, and given free access to all their stuff so you can do a pure simple grief. No, the kind of major griefing in this game would be more the EvE style.

Now, whether or not you can get enough people that are actually interested in forming this coalition is another question, especially if when everyone goes to sleep the entire town can just be destroyed. That's the only issue I have with the concept, I think the rest of it is sound, but if your entire guild/community is offline, or just 90% of them, the potential for a major destruction of everything they've built by a rival group is more or less guaranteed.

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