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Reader Comments (16)

Posted: Jan 20th 2011 7:37PM Kroktar said

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When free2play model will start?

Posted: Jan 20th 2011 7:44PM Stormwalker said

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@Kroktar On Tuesday the 25th.
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Posted: Jan 20th 2011 7:48PM Stormwalker said

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Costly respecs seem to be a hallmark for Cryptic. I remember the early days of CoH, where the respec trial, then the only way to get a respec, was difficult to pull off. You really had to work for it, and even then, you could only get a max of three respecs for a character like that.

Thankfully Paragon Studios has given us many more ways to get respecs. Vet Rewards, crafting recipes, and they give out free respecs to everyone for all characters whenever they alter a powerset in a significant way.

Posted: Jan 20th 2011 10:51PM gandales said

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@Stormwalker

Just to clarify since the article omitted it, CO has given 4 or 5 free respec since launch. Besides the lvl 40s gained respec there are gained respecs as part of veteran rewards. I have never had to pay for a respec so far .

Besides, there is power house with rooms to test the power builds, or the person can just copy its character to the test server and test it.

Still the advice about putting the powers which the person is not sure at the end is good.
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Posted: Jan 20th 2011 10:11PM MtthwRddl said

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It never made sense to me why (in CO) a hero can dip into virtually any skill tree. What's the purpose of having a good number of different skill trees if a max level character can dip into all of them? How is that consistent with comic book heroes?

I've never seen Aquaman whip out some psyblades or shoot lightning out of his hands.

Posted: Jan 20th 2011 11:14PM madbassman39 said

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@MtthwRddl The idea isn't that your hero can do everything, its that your hero can be the hero you want him/her to be. to be consistent with comic book heroes, look at Superman has super strength, laser eyes, and frost breath. With sticking to only one power means you have to either have super strength, laser projection, or ice powers. In Champions you can chose one or two powers to make the character have the abilities you want. The Punisher doesn't just shoot everybody, he uses knives, fists and guns. Blade doesn't just use swords, he has superhuman strength, guns and swords. Spider-man doesn't just have spider powers, he has martial arts/acrobatic skills, super strength and spider powers. If you couldn't select any power from any skill then you are stuck with one power ability limiting your imagination.

To paint you a picture, I create a character named "The Psychic Ninja" if I'm stuck to just one archetype I have to chose to have Swords, claws, martial arts, telekinesis or telepathy (all power sets in the game), but with the ability to chose I will give my character swords as their basic power, some claw and hand to hand combat techniques for fun, and then give them some telepathic healing and some abilities to hold my enemies with my telekinetic abilities. None of which would be out of place for a hero named "The Psychic Ninja"

Again, its not that you have to, its that you can. Some heroes, like the Green Arrow, would stick to just one power set anyways.
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Posted: Jan 20th 2011 11:34PM MtthwRddl said

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@madbassman39

Again, what is the point of skill trees if max level heroes can catch a vine between all of them? Why not just have a long list of skills?

Also, I'd bet that if you looked at all the superheroes in DC/Marvel, there'd be more heroes with a singular ability (like Iceman) than heroes with an array of abilities (like Superman).

Why doesn't DCUO have Invunerability as a chosen ability? Because not everyone gets to be like Superman or Thor and have very little weaknesses and a ton of different abilities. That's comic accurate.
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Posted: Jan 21st 2011 12:00AM madbassman39 said

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@MtthwRddl Yes, its comic accurate to the DC Universe. The idea behind Champions pen and paper is that your hero is your creation, not limited by the previously created universes. You are allowed to have your own version of superman, or if you want have someone much much weaker (and ultimately more entertaining). It's not really about sticking to the universes created but creating one of it's own. Since the idea came from an pen and paper RPG, the idea is that you create your hero you want to role play as. There is no rule in comics saying that your hero can't be as powerful as Superman or Thor, but those characters are much less interesting then say Spider-man who is pretty bad at being a superhero and has to learn as he goes. Comic accurate is pretty much saying "can these characters exist in comic books?" and the answer is: yes, because comic books have no limitations. It doesn't make them more interesting, but thats for the creator to decide not the tools.

As for the power sets, it is pretty much a long list of skills. Try out the game and see that you can have any skill you want as long as you meet the minimum requirements for that skill (have 1 power within the power set or 2 with-in any other power set.) The skills are unlocked by level so you can chose your powers as you see fit.
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Posted: Jan 21st 2011 2:36AM BigAndShiny said

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@madbassman39
champions is your universe. There is no 'in lore' about your guy/girl/demon so you have more and better freedom than games such as dcuo which is a normal mmo disguised as an mmoshg
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Posted: Jan 21st 2011 12:55AM Resurge said

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Am i the only person who thinks easy/cheap respecs have watered down MMOs?

Don't get me wrong, i am the first person to take advantage of said respecs when offered, if i screwed something up - and yes it SUCKS to be stuck with bad choices you didn't understand when you made them (hello there, Shadowbane) , but i really think i prefer the "limited/really friggin expensive respec" option some games take/used to take.

With such easy and cheap respecs that most MMOs these days have, it just seems like the choices you make don't matter as much, and it promoted "flavor of the month" specs so much more. I liked it when we were all unique snowflakes, flawed though we may have been. A good spec was the mark of an expert player, and something to aspire to when i was cutting my teeth on DAOC and the like.

am i alone in this?

Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 11:13AM Valdamar said

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@Resurge
I know what you're saying, and I see the upsides and downsides of both, but if I can't respec in a game then that just makes level-up times more agonizing (possibly taking me out of whatever gameplay I was enjoying, maybe in a team, while I withdraw to think over my level-up choices) - it also makes it far more likely I won't want to play the game at launch just so I can wait to find out which powers/skills are duds (and see which ones get buffed/nerfed in the inevitable early balance tweaks) so that I can avoid the broken/dud powers/skills and plan my entire character build in advance to make the level-up process a bit less stressful (which leads to cookie cutter characters because few people will want to experiment on their own and possibly end up with a broken/weak character).

Personally I prefer it when the core aspects of a character are set in stone (e.g. class and race in fantasy MMOs, archetype and powersets/frameworks in CoH/CO/DCUO terms) and cannot be changed at all (especially not by microtransaction), but you can switch around and add/remove skills with ease and the least possible hassle - because that tends to lead to players sticking with the core tenets of their characters, but still being able to experiment within that structure to adjust the character to their own playstyle and easily correct mistakes - or early choices that later seem like mistakes, which is all too likely in MMOs as they change not only throughout the level progression but also as a result of patches and new content additions.

After all, there's nothing worse than making a mistake - either from ignorance of the late game, or just a misclick, and then being faced with either living with that mistake for the rest of your character's life, deleting the character and remaking it from scratch and losing all your progress, or just getting so irked with the fact that the game won't let you undo your mistake and that you perceive your character as "ruined" that you just quit (something the Developers definitely don't want).
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Posted: Jan 21st 2011 1:08AM Enikuo said

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Difficult retcons, plus having full retcons in a cash shop for a sub game are the reason I'm not subscribed to CO right now. But, that's just my opinion. And, I'm just one person. And, more and more it seems not okay to not like things about MMOs or to say you don't like something, or to think that even saying anything makes a difference at all to anyone. In fact, on second thought, it's all wonderful. Good for them.

Posted: Jan 21st 2011 2:39AM BigAndShiny said

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Champions is not easy to respec. I respec''ed almost all my skills at lvl 20 as an infernal and it cost all of my money+ money that someone had lent me. and i hardly ever bought anything from vendors

Posted: Jan 21st 2011 9:03AM Chiren said

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They also gave everyone a free respec token several months ago, I forget exactly the reason why, but its still sitting in my character's pocket nice and warm.

As Gandales said, and something I think the article should've really highlighted, is that while in a power room, any "unset" power slots can be freely swapped around if you want to try and see how something works. And you can stay in the power room as long as you want. For my friend and I when we played, practically half our game time was stuck in power rooms just trying things out - its a lot of fun.

Its true that at higher levels respecs get pretty expensive, but at the same time its pretty fast to level a character to 14 and pretty cheap to respec as well. 14 is the level in which you can access a top tier talent in any tree (yes yes, minus the vibora bay ones). So if you just want to try orbital cannon or haymaker, its really just a few days of investment.

Posted: Jan 21st 2011 4:34PM Patrick Mackey said

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@Chiren That's absolutely a good point. It was also noted above that you can use PTS to cover any build, just by using the fast-level to 40 NPC. You still can't use the Tier 4 powers, but you can use anything else, and Tier 4 powers are kind of bad, for the most part.

But yeah, you can "try before you buy" on any power in the game, and test the functionality in the training dummy rooms or even in a PvP environment by dueling someone in the mobility training room. You can also test your new powers versus mob groups of various sizes in the battle station rooms.

It's because of those features (particularly fast level 40 on PTS) that we know so much about the game; any new feature can be quickly tested with a wide variety of new features, so the "truth" about how a particular power works can be quickly determined.
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Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 11:27AM Valdamar said

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City of Heroes had a fairly complex system of creating your character, but at least you only had powers and slots to worry about and it was fairly easy to understand how each would benefit you. But still it was a major boon to have a character planner (which the community provided).

Which is why I was bewildered that Cryptic made Champions even more complex and confusing - it doesn't make sense when you're ostensibly building a casual MMO. In particular when I played CO it just wasn't evident to me how much benefit I would gain from particular super-stats or certain advantages - they were very poorly explained.

And that just leads to situations where people make mistakes - or make a decisions for their character without full possession of the facts and it later turns out to be a mistake for their playstyle. So it just baffles me that Cryptic would hamper their design further by making it costly to undo mistakes in a system that just encourages you to make mistakes usually from uninformed choices that are pushed on you.

In fact the only way I could have played CO long term would have been if I could have done some in-depth forum/wiki/website research on how best to spec my character, and given that I didn't really enjoy COs basic combat that much it just didn't seem worth the effort.

But then I had a similar reaction to Dungeons & Dragons Online - in that case I actually enjoyed the combat, but the character creation/level-up stats seemed unnecessarily confusing (probably because I never ran/played AD&D back when I roleplayed) that I just couldn't be bothered to research how to build the kind of character I wanted to play.

By comparison in Guild Wars - and in CoH now - all of the information you need is at your fingertips and clearly evident onscreen before you make your choice - it's easy to see what benefit you'll gain from an extra attribute point here (in GW), or slotting an extra/better enhancement there (in CoH).

Guild Wars even lets you respec your entire character for free every time you're in a town/outpost (without weakening the lore of the game or the core of your character).

If you can quickly make decisions and experiment with different builds to your heart's content then personally that adds a lot of replay value to a game for me - and it makes levelling-up a lot less stressful and less long-winded when you don't have to worry about making a mistake you can't undo or would have to pay to undo.

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