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Reader Comments (17)

Posted: Jan 19th 2011 2:16PM Stormwalker said

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I like to type CoH's different protective powers like so...

Defense makes you Spider-Man. You're very agile and dodge-y. Most attacks will miss you, but those that hit, hit you hard.

Damage Resistance makes you Superman. You'll get hit a lot, but the damage is minimized enough that you can ignore it.

Regeneration, you're Wolverine. You get hit a lot, and full force, but you heal so fast that you can take it all.

All three types have their pros and cons. Defense is largely based on luck, but DR and Regen can get overwhelmed if you get cocky.

Posted: Jan 19th 2011 3:18PM Shirogetsune said

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Soft capped defense (45%, no reason to go any higher) is what most min/maxer's use to make themselves gods in PvE. Defense, from what I read, is largely useless in PvP however... a player needs to only use a handful of yellow inspirations to overcome your soft capped defenses. Resistance is the way to go in PvP.

Since few in City PvP, most go for soft capped defense. Actually getting there is something else altogether.

Posted: Jan 19th 2011 3:56PM Katsiya Vell said

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@Shirogetsune The only problem with what you said there, in my opinion, is that there isn't any reason to go beyond the 45% Soft cap for Defense. Quite a few Lethal type attacks (guns with bullets and most any weapon based attack with a blade) along with Peacebringer attacks have Defense Debuffs attached to them. They just need a few lucky hits before your the Defense Debuff Cascade effect goes active and you just can't dodge at all any more due to having negative Defense, if you live that long. Peacebringer mobs are the biggest cause of this, but are usually only seen when you're doing stuff on the Villian side.

Of course, how much more Defense you would want is a personal matter, and depends a bit on your Defense Set. Super Reflexes can cap the Defense Debuff Resistance stat, so an extra 5-10% should be more than enough to get you through all but the most extreme of unlucky periods.

Honestly, in the long run, you'd do best by having as much of a balance between Defense, Resistance, and Health Regen (either passive or through self-heals) as you can get.
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Posted: Jan 19th 2011 4:08PM WonderPenguin said

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@Shirogetsune my stone tanking self approves this post.
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Posted: Jan 19th 2011 6:14PM Stormwalker said

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@Katsiya Vell A balance between all three is truly the sweet spot. I LOVE my Willpower Brute.
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Posted: Jan 19th 2011 4:44PM JFink said

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I'd like to go back to your first question about the brute with the endurance problems.

First, it may just be your powerset choices. Some are just heavier on the end use than others. Claws tends to be on the low end for attacks and Dual Blades or Ax/Mace tend to be on the high end. Or it may be your defensive set. Dark Armor is notoriously bad on End.

Second, power slot enhancement. Yeah Stamina should have 3 slots in it by around level 22, but before that, it's fine to have two. Also how are you Enhancing your powers? The general rule of thumb is for attacks, first slot is for an Accuracy, second slot is for End Reduce, and anything after that is damage or recharge. The Acc is important because if you don't hit them, you can't hurt them, and you'll need to take another attack on them, wasting more End.

I know the gut reaction to Brutes is Smash harder, but while Fury can help with damage, it can't do a thing about your Accuracy or Endurance.

Last thing, BRAWL! That free power from lvl 1, actually can be a very nice part of your attack chain and it's boosted by Fury as well. Don't forget it is a Zero End Cost power, just enhance it with a Acc and forget about it.

Posted: Jan 20th 2011 3:19PM Eliot Lefebvre said

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@JFink ED hits pretty hard if you slot three IOs in Stamina; you can arguably get away with two. (Especially if you're running with Quick Recovery as well.) And you're right on the money about Brawl - it doesn't hit hard, but it does hit, and it keeps you moving. Points to you for remembering that when I'd forgotten.
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Posted: Jan 19th 2011 5:25PM AT3374 said

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Looking forward to getting all the vanguard pieces and hope Roman ones get released at some point also .

Just when I thought I ran out of ideas for toons , the DEVS go and do this and to that I say " Thanks " ;)

Posted: Jan 19th 2011 6:15PM Stormwalker said

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@AT3374 The Roman pieces are pretty easy to get. Just unlock one badge and bam.
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Posted: Jan 20th 2011 3:09PM Eliot Lefebvre said

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@Stormwalker This is true; however, it means that you can't construct a character in Roman garb from level one. For some of us, this is an issue. It's the sort of thing I characterize as personal preference in others and me being an idiot when it's just me.
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Posted: Jan 20th 2011 4:04PM AT3374 said

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Agreed , unfortunately for me I've tried 3 times and all three times came up empty , so at some point getting it free would be nice but if not , thats cool too
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Posted: Jan 20th 2011 3:10AM Jeromai said

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Resistance used to be king quite a while back. Certain picky people would always pick tanks other than ice and scrapper sets other than SR because of the perceived lack of consistency. Heavily defense reliant sets dodge attacks completely 95% of the time, and the once or twice a streakbreaker sneaks through... yoowwouch. Squished, and everyone remembers the bad moments.

There also was quite a few notorious mob factions with high accuracy or defense debuffs that will cut right through defense like paper. though they've tried balancing that out with one or two special cases that debuff resistance.

What has happened is that it is now easier to layer up defense using set IOs. Softcap defense is a goal that some characters strive for, in order to deflect most PvE attacks, in addition to whatever capabilities their powerset gives them. This is by design as the devs find it easier to strip away defense temporarily rather than resistance, thanks to how the game is built.

If one studies the original survivability sets (see invul and stone), the true magic happens with a triptych of defense, resistance and health (higher health, self-heal, more +regen.)

A decent amount of defense blocks the initial flurry of attacks from getting past, resistance nullifies some of the major hurt, and then whatever replaces your health tops up your hp bar.

The newer sets show off this recognition as well by mixing it up. (See shield defense and willpower.)

For a fire tank with high resistances and a self-heal already provided by powerset, looking for ways to shore up the missing link, defense is the way to go. For other powersets that might be close to softcap def already, you have a choice. As mentioned above, you might go for a bit more to top it off, or just rely on lucks + team buffs to hit softcap during trouble spots and use IOs for something else (recharge, fer example).

Posted: Jan 20th 2011 7:13AM CitizenH said

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@Jeromai

The other thing is resistance is less useful to ATs with lower HP and lower resistance caps. All ATs have the same defense caps however.

If you have 300 HP and are hit rapidly with a couple of attacks that total 700 damage, you're dead whether you have 10% or capped 50% damage resistance .

To be sure, the most sturdy sets have a good mix of defense, resistance and healing. Most of them, especially the older ones, lack in one or more areas that are hard to fill. Invulnerability is probably the best set in the game for taking an alpha strike (except for perhaps Shield where /it/ alpha's the enemies instead), but it lacks staying power; your self heal has a long recharge, your defense decreases as the crowd thins. Also, it's not that hot for tanking singular AVs, it's a joke in PvP and it sure doesn't live up to it's name when faced with any kind of psi damage.

Despite these are four huge holes, it's still one of the better all round sets. Still, I wish the old sets like it would get a revamp. Stone's movement penalties, Invul's holes, Fire's pointless knock back weakness; unless you invest a fortune in IOs they just don't hold up to the newer sets like Shield and Willpower. Even then they're just OK while IOed Shields become godlike.
:/
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Posted: Jan 20th 2011 10:53AM Daemodand said

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@CitizenH Actually Invulnerability is one of the best sets you can take on a melee in PvP.
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Posted: Jan 20th 2011 7:23AM J Brad Hicks said

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Bad advice on the endurance problem. Well, partially bad advice: yes, now that Stamina is a free level 2 power, everybody should have it and should have at least one Endurance Modification enhancement in it.

But it is almost never your toggles that kill your endurance in CoH, it's your attacks. All of your toggles at once, even with only a single Endurance Reduction (EndRed) enhancement, probably burn less than 1 endurance per second. Your average attack chain is closer to 5 to 10 endurance per second.

Slot every attack with one EndRed. Slot it in this order: Accuracy, Accuracy, Endurance Reduction, and then as many Damage enhancements as you can spare slots for that attack. This is especially true for Brutes, because any time you're not punching, you're losing Fury fast. Slotting for EndRed so you can keep punching will roughly double your damage output; slotting for one more Damage will only increase it by 33%.

Posted: Jan 20th 2011 10:59AM Daemodand said

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@J Brad Hicks Well, yes and no. You can think of your attacks using your Endurance, and the toggles as using your Endurance Recovery. It's an important distinction. Sure, those toggles won't make your blue bar go down noticeably on their own, but they will act to keep it from going back up again at an acceptable rate. This is why it's important to slot Endurance Reduction both in attacks and toggles as they are not mutually exclusive but complimentary in nature.
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Posted: Jan 20th 2011 3:17PM Eliot Lefebvre said

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@J Brad Hicks An interesting argument, considering that I just got a reply from the original questioner who confirmed that the advice in the column worked wonders. It's something of a matter of perspective.

Toggles will almost never take your Endurance down by themselves; however, having a whole plateful running without exceptionally high recovery will cause a serious problem. It's easy to notice if your Endurance dips because you use a high-cost power, just like it's easy to notice that an attack just took off half your health. What's not as intuitive is why your Endurance isn't recovering after you've used it, compared to the usual bounce up that happens when given a couple of minutes.

It's also a problem that's less frequent for, say, Blasters. A Blaster will notice a big dip when he goes nuts for a while with his abilities, but it bounces back in a moment. Blasters aren't usually running many toggles and generally don't have many available. Brutes, on the other hand, tend to get a lot of toggles early on, something that can lead you to turning everything on at once because it's not visibly affecting your Endurance.

So yes, arguably, toggles don't drain Endurance. But they tend to keep it drained for longer periods, and if you're running a toggle-heavy archetype with consistent Endurance problems, they're a pretty likely culprit.
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