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Reader Comments (26)

Posted: Jan 13th 2011 1:54PM Chiren said

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Ufff now that I'm looking at the pre-defined archetypes - well that takes a lot of the fun out of the game. And by that I specifically mean the Power Room.

I agree on the limited open power selection. Like if you're a might character, then while you can choose powers, you can only choose them from the might tree. Don't stick me with Defensive *barf* Combo.

They should let you choose any power in the power room, just not be allowed to exit unless you have all powers sitting in your primary tree on the way out.

If they take out any reason to go to the power room altogether... well, I mean almost half of my game time was in there. :/

Posted: Jan 13th 2011 2:00PM BigAndShiny said

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Hmmm, for me customization was never a big part of champions appeal. it was just that after Vanguard and years of Wow the combat and world were so snappy and quick and fast. It feels good to be overpowered because superheroes ARE overpowered. I want to tackle 3 villains at a time and beat them in 30 seconds. Before champions i played every mmo for at least a month. Now i find myself trying every mmo and just wanting the combat of champions. It feels so boring. i am SO ANGRY right now at cryptic, because if they had more content, i would still be playing the game right now.
Truly an amazing experience.

Posted: Jan 13th 2011 2:35PM SiML said

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@BigAndShiny

Champions has an awful lot more PvE content than DCUO, (even back at launch). DCUO is an utter wasteland.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2011 3:38PM Zantom said

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@BigAndShiny

Give the new DC Universe Online a try. I think you will like the combat pace and content.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2011 2:17PM PrimeSynergy said

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I feel sorry for Cryptic because they have, in theory, 2 potentially huge IPs sitting in the palm of their hands. They could easily...EASILY...make a few key decisions that would turn CO (and STO) into a goldmine, but for some reason they seem hell bent on going down the wrong route.

Posted: Jan 13th 2011 2:31PM WonderPenguin said

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@PrimeSynergy in their defense, i think dstahl is doing a good job putting STO back on the correct path. All of the major issues with the game are being addressed: the craptastic sector space has been revamped, ground combat is being redesigned right now, and theyre working to replace some of the wonky animations and environments as well. I can't speak for CO, but STO at least has a shred of hope.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2011 10:49PM madbassman39 said

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@PrimeSynergy I personally like CO, but I don't think it can be fixed from the way people speak of it negatively. I'm one of those "don't judge it until you try it" type people, and I waited until CO had the first Blood Moon event with Free to play for three days. I bought it by the end of the second day. Its a fun game and it is steadily improving, but too many people are saying how bad it is where no matter what they do, they can't get people to pay to try their game. I'm sure this F2P will encourage people to try the game and many people will say "hey this isn't that bad" and jump on the subscription model. Hopefully this works out for them.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2011 2:55PM blakerefuge said

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I'd be curious to know which Archetypes you've played, Mr. Mackey. A lot of them, like the Inferno or Behemoth, are very fun to play, even from the early levels. I'd say only a few need work before launch. Add in a C Store option to buy the missing 3 powers (open choice) and we'd be golden.

Posted: Jan 16th 2011 3:38PM Patrick Mackey said

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@blakerefuge All of them.

Inferno is actually reasonable (although fireball wouldn't be my first choice as an early power). It has no defense, so its weaknesses really don't show up until later. Still, Inferno is probably the most fun to play right now from 1-40.

Behemoth isn't fun at all for me. I can take a pass since I hate melee in general but the lack of good AoE at 14 is just unacceptable. If he got shockwave as early as possible I'd consider him good. I'm not a good identifier of what is "fun" for melee since people who enjoy melee tend to like things that are less fun for me. Still, Behemoth is awful compared to a free-form character who only picks Might powers.

My litmus test really isn't whether characters are better than cross-framework monsters, but rather whether they pick good powers at good times in their own frameworks.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2011 3:02PM ShivanSwordsman said

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Honestly, I'm tired of all these people trying to hammer themselves into Turbine's role and doing it like a bunch of money grubbing idiots. Turbine's games have Deeds and Favor Achievements that give you cash shop money. Whilst I've never agreed with the system where you don't get cash shop money in the amount you spend, honestly, LOTRO and DDO feel like the most fair systems in the gaming market for F2P.

Champions is a decent looking game, I'll give it that, but if they try strangling you into getting you to pay them (IE, the Everquet 2 method), then I'm stuck believing these are over glorified "Forever Trials" like WAR has. Looking over the features, they've currently cut out the "Hey, you spent money with us. Thanks bud!" deal that is Premium for Turbine users, instead defaulting to just "Free" and "Subscriber". You only get 1 inventory pack, the currency cap means good luck affording anything late game, and the costume slots take away is just unneeded. Vanity yes, so it's not minded TOO much.

But then there's the "Custom Archetypes" take away. That's going to make you weaker than your enemies. This is the "force you to pay us to get the most from your game" method. I don't mind when some archetypes are cut away and made rewards in the game, or in the cash-shop, but taking a vital game mechanic and making it pay or middlefinger? That's like taking dual classes out of Guild Wars. Without this feature, you're going to get steam rolled by the min/maxers, and even then, your personal identity in the world is screwed.

The game looks interesting, but the way they're doing it just reminds me too much of WAR's "Forever Trial" system, only you can hit level cap. Hopefully they pull their heads out of their rears before the big launch, or during the first month. So far, I'm not interested in giving these idiots any of my money.

Posted: Jan 14th 2011 2:17AM Patrick Mackey said

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@ShivanSwordsman Even if they are a bit harsh, I feel your concerns have a lot of merit. While F2P Champions characters will get to see the majority of the game's content, customization is the point of the game and I feel Archetypes get far too little.

The good news is that you won't have to give them any money to find out whether or not the end result is fun, and can play all the way up. That's worth something, at least.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2011 3:06PM blakerefuge said

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And two more things:

1. I keep seeing you mention "top-tier" builds. Archetypes aren't really meant to be top tier. They are built to be fun and effective enough to get through the game's content, which they are. Top tier builds can solo Therakiel.

2. Your idea of limited customization simply wouldn't work due to the fact that Silver members are playing for free and already get the entire game. If they were given more customization than Archetypes allow, then subscriptions, especially lifetime ones, would be hugely devalued. It would be a disaster for the game.

Posted: Jan 13th 2011 3:39PM Protoavis said

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@blakerefuge

Considering how you post these same arguments in every location that talks about CO it's difficult to take anything you say without a grain of salt due to the extreme bias you display. You really don't come across as open to any opinion that they devs give you.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2011 3:51PM blakerefuge said

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@Protoavis

This is the first time I can recall disputing this column's opinion on Archetypes, other than a few weeks back when a vast amount of straight up false information was posted.

You don't need to agree with me. Sure, I think CO is a great game and obviously that will show in my posts, just like the average CO hater's bias will show as well. I'm definitely open, as I'm even taking a break from CO right now to play DCUO.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2011 3:10PM DancingCow said

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"Generally, a custom hero is complete by the mid-20s, both in terms of attacks, heals, and utilities. The difference is that Archetype heroes have worthless or redundant power selections all over the place."

There are probably 2 things feeding into this design.

1) Currently the PvE game is very solo-centric. By gimping players like this it may make the content a bit more difficult to solo, but easier in groups. This may actually help the game.

2) They obviously want to encourage players to spend money - so they gimp the frebulites.

Posted: Jan 13th 2011 4:49PM Enikuo said

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I thought the customization was one of the best things about CO, so the archetypes don't seem very appealing. I could never get past the way they handled retcons either, which seemed too restrictive and joy-killing, especially for a new player. That said, the monthly point allotment for subs might make up for retcons in the cash shop.

Posted: Jan 14th 2011 12:38AM pixelmonkey said

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Actually the rumor mill kicked up that F2p people will be able to have 1 or 2 powers to freely choose from the vast number that are in Champs. 1 or 2 maybe not 15ish as gold members get, but it does offer a taste, and some added flexibility in your character. I guess we will have to wait for offical word though.

Posted: Jan 14th 2011 2:14AM Patrick Mackey said

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@pixelmonkey Actually, that rumor mill is correct according to the Archetype page. Characters seem to get a small number of choices at some levels, such as Nightmare/Ego Storm for Mind in the late game. I feel it's too little, but many of the Archetypes do get a small bit of choice in their power selection.
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Posted: Jan 14th 2011 3:59AM lmollea said

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To be honest, I never understood why Cryptic didn't make so that on a "Silver" player you can purchase an "unlock" so you can convert it into a "gold" character.
It's such a simple business choice already implemented in other f2p conversions (for example, Lotro has a similar concept letting you unlock the extra trait slots for f2p characters). It would be probably the most bought item in the store, put it at a "reasonable" price and all f2p would enjoy the full game without being forced to play half of CO.

Posted: Jan 14th 2011 7:19AM Tazmanyak said

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@lmollea
I dont agree with this. As Cryptic chose to keep the monthly suscription, there must be an "advantage" to pay 10$ a month over paying one-time-fee of 15$ to unlock gold advantages oÔ

I understand your point, but what would be the point of a gold account then?
And, more, how to deal with the LTS accounts??
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