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Posted: Jan 7th 2011 7:01PM Sean D said

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@Tom L

Your assumptions are incorrect. Vault upgrades, which are specifically what I am talking about, were available pre and post FtP. Pre FtP, one could spend gold to upgrade one character's personal vault. Post FtP, this is still possible until you reach the final two personal vault upgrades, which are not purchasable with gold. They are only available through the store. To clarify, if you want to purchase the final two 15-slot upgrades to your character's personal vault, you *must* to do so through the online store (with Turbine Points).

As a VIP member, you pay $15.00 per month and receive 500 Turbine Points per month in return. If you do the math (by comparing online store prices for additional Turbine Points with the amount of Turbine Points received), you'll see that they come at the cost of about 62 points per dollar spent (this is including the bonus points), which means the 500 points a VIP member receives equate to a reimbursement of about 8 dollars. Assuming I spend the points I receive each month, this means I pay about $7.00 per month for my VIP account.

Now, the amount of Turbine Points required to purchase the final two single character vault upgrades is 895 and 995, respectively. Using the 62 points per dollar conversion, this equates to a little over $14.00 for the first upgrade and around $16.00 for the second upgrade. Total for the two upgrades equals around $30.00. If I spend the 500 points I received as a VIP, I am still required to spend about $23.00 for the two upgrades, assuming I buy them both in the same month.

I want to remind you once more that these upgrades are for a single character's vault and not the shared vault, and that they cannot be purchased in-game with gold.

I do NOT feel that a VIP should have free access to everything, but I DO believe that, since I am already paying $15.00/month ($180.00/year) to play the game, I shouldn't be required to shell out another $23.00 for 30 bank slots on one character. Considering people play alts, and often more than one or two, the cost for 30 extra slots of storage space becomes unreasonable. I WISH these slots could be purchased with gold, as you say. At the very least, the prices for these items and a few others should be reduced.

I respect that you are able to play the game to your satisfaction with limited storage space, and I respect that you feel the point-to-dollar system that Turbine has implemented is fair on all counts. I do not. But that doesn't mean I'm "blatantly misrepresenting the system," or "banding about numbers," as if I made them up, or that I "feel as a VIP I should have full access to all of everything at all times."

It could simply be that I place more value on a dollar than you do.

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Posted: Jan 7th 2011 8:00PM Tom L said

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@Sean D You are not having to pay any money for those bank slots, you are choosing to buy them. The costs you quote are only relevant at the smallest point bundle you can buy. Spend more money, get more points/$... all the way down to 1TP=$0.01 dollars. So, 1500 TP's would be equal to $15 total. Buy the TP's when they are on sale and that cost is even lower. Moreover, it's easy to get on a $10 per month plan, and therefore, relatively speaking your stipend is worth even more to you. Then you conveniently forget about the daily sales in the store where stuff like that is regularly 20% off.

Remember also, that previous to F2P you could only have 7 extra slots, or 8 total. Now you can have 10 but you have to pay TP's for them, which you earn through both play and as a stipend for your subscription. I don't see the issue. Functionality has increased. Period.

Turbine chooses to offer new stuff you didn't have before F2P and you complain that you can't have them without spending money or spending time.

You farm TP's on a per acct. not per toon basis, so I really don't see the problem. It's irrelevant what I value a dollar at. All you are saying is that you want to have more functionality in-game without having to pay for it. In other words, you are miffed that you value your dollars more than 30 extra bank slots and are blaming Turbine for your behaviour. I also value the dollars more than the 30 bank slots, the difference is I'm not whining in public about it.

Did you complain when they added Enedwaith for 0TPs to VIP's? I didn't think so.

Ta,
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Posted: Jan 7th 2011 8:49PM Sean D said

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@Tom L

You're correct and I understand that you farm TPs on a per account, not per character basis. You do, however, acquire additional vault slots on a per character basis, not per account. If I require, as a crafter might, for example, the extra vault space, then I must spend an additional 895 or 995 TPs per character for that space, regardless of where the TPs come from, effectively, I think, rendering the TP gain a per character gain, and not per account gain. In other words, I can play three characters on the same account and accumulate 995 TPs. When I move to purchase the final vault expansion, the expansion is only for one character, not all three, which means I'll need to accumulate another 995 TPs, twice over for the other two characters. As you can see, I am effectively accumulating points on a per character basis, not account-wide in this regard. And the 500 point stipend adds TPs per account as well, not per character, as you know. Spread across three characters (or more), the stipend is significantly diminished.

Vault slots are necessary to play the game. I find that in any game, as I progress, I require more slots, especially if I engage in crafting at all, which I do in LotRO.

$50.00 for 5000 points. What does that get you? A final vault expansion for 5 characters. 75 extra vault slots spread across 5 characters, 15 per, for $50.00. That doesn't seem expensive to you?
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Posted: Jan 7th 2011 9:15PM Sean D said

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@Sean D

Do you think the increased revenue for LotRO is due solely to an increase in the player-base? Are individual players are spending more money on the game than they would if it were still operated under a subscription format?

There's a psychology to Turbine's move to FtP. People spend money to buy points and points to buy items in the store, some of which are borderline necessary, such as expanded vault space. Do you think Turbine would still be tripling their revenue if they put a dollar price on their store items rather than a point price?

My concern is that, in psychologically making it easier for many people to make purchases on the Turbine store, the value of the items therein are being 'set'. In other words, if 70% (a random large percentage) of players buy an item out of the store at 1500 points, then the price become 'set' at 1500 points. How many people think to themselves, "I bought this 1500 points for $15.00, so I'm spending $15.00 on this item - this item is worth $15.00 to me?" I do.

I'm happy for Turbine's success. They are one of the few developers out there that I still support and I will continue to do so. My fear is that they've changed their focus from supporting their players to making a larger profit. How long has it been since we've seen something innovative from them in the way of an expansion? (Enedwaith was not an expansion, though I did appreciate not having to spend more money on it. I expected I would have to, one way or another.) I hope they reciprocate and do something substantial with their new-found wealth.
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Posted: Jan 8th 2011 7:00AM tororosso said

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@Sean D

you're king, thanks for bringing this to light.


@tom

you're better off just turning into a yes man.
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Posted: Jan 7th 2011 6:52AM tenfootgoatman said

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You can't argue with success . Looks at you Age of Conan and Warhammer . Well and pretty much every other less successful mmos out there .

Posted: Jan 7th 2011 8:26AM (Unverified) said

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3 times "no value mentioned" is

3 times NO value mentioned.

Is 3 X 0

is 0

Posted: Jan 9th 2011 10:07PM iowahawkeyedave said

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@(Unverified)

Your logic would be correct if the value of no value mentioned was actually 0. In this case its 3 times previous value, and previous value is not equal to 0.
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Posted: Jan 10th 2011 4:04AM (Unverified) said

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@iowahawkeyedave

Actualy it FITS, since "previous value" is unkonwn and current value is unknown.

Meaning they did'nt have ANY hard earned cash to communicatie.
So a NON filled in value is ZERO.

It's a big fat lie and apparently people can't read what they say: 300% of X is still ZERO if X isn't cited.

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Posted: Jan 7th 2011 7:44PM Tom L said

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@ArhK: you're welcome. Glad to be of service.

Ta,

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