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Reader Comments (11)

Posted: Dec 28th 2010 10:17PM Dblade said

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This is good. The courier idea still has flaws, but this will help pilots filter out some of the more obvious scams. It seems like they are trying hard to fix the lacking non-pvp aspects of the game.

Posted: Dec 28th 2010 11:59PM DrewIW said

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@Dblade

Contracts and markets are pvp, they just don't involve shooting.
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Posted: Dec 29th 2010 1:12AM Dblade said

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@DrewIW In regular PvP all you risk is your ship. In this you can risk an additional 20+ million collateral as a courier. This is why no one does courier services apart from red frog freight, and they can be shut down easy by a determined wardec.

EVE sucks because of that. So many things that could add richness to the game don't get done because of the threat of PvP or ripping off.
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Posted: Dec 29th 2010 1:39AM Brendan Drain said

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@Dblade A wardec takes 48 hours to deploy (24h for the vote, then 24h before it becomes active) but most courier packages are delivered the same day the contract is accepted. Also, players can stay in an NPC corp and be completely immune to wardecs if that's what they want. The risk in courier missions isn't from wardecs, it's from suicide attacks and piracy in low security systems on the travel route.

There are plenty of ways to protect against suicide attacks, the most obvious being to just be mindful of the value someone might have in killing your ship and using a ship that's not worth the value of ships required to suicide it. Using a freighter, transport ship or blockade runner will reduce the risk of suicide attacks to almost negligible levels. The risk from lowsec systems en-route is something that players need to be educated on, and that's something these updates will help with.

For the record, people do take courier missions. I even periodically take some myself if I'm doing a trade or supply run and the haul isn't out of my way. As long as you don't fall for any obvious traps, it's quite a handy way to make a few extra million on a trip you were going to do anyway.
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Posted: Dec 29th 2010 2:12AM Dblade said

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@Brendan Drain I was mentioning that a courier corp like Red Frog could easily be shut down via a wardec. Also, why are you talking about courier missions? These are courier contracts, where you cannot choose the value of cargo you hold as easily, and pay a huge collateral on top of it.

Considering you yourself wrote a guide on how to exploit courier contracts for gain here, you should know better.
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Posted: Dec 29th 2010 2:31AM DrewIW said

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@Dblade

Pretty sure he was talking about contracts, based on the context of what he was saying...

He's right, as well. If you're already making a trip, it's pretty nice to pick up available courier contracts and complete them.
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Posted: Dec 29th 2010 2:56AM Brendan Drain said

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@Dblade Apologies, I was actually talking about courier contracts and just used the wrong word. A corp like Red Frog can't be shut down by a wardec because the person who accepts the package just has to deliver it at the destination -- he doesn't have to actually haul it. He can hand the package to a dedicated freighter pilot who stays in an NPC-corp or leaves the corp during a war, and then fly over in a shuttle or covert ops frigate to deliver the package. I'd imagine this is what Red Frog would do when hit with a wardec, as it's a fairly obvious and legitimate counter.

Also, just because there are ways to exploit courier contracts for gain doesn't make the system itself broken. As with most of EVE's economic underworld activities, it only works when your target makes a mistake (like accepting a contract to deliver to a system he can't dock in or not putting high enough collateral on his package). To rip someone off through it, you have to basically trick him into putting himself at risk. There are no inherent risks or broken mechanics in the courier contract system, it's players that introduce risk by not being aware of scams and dangerous missions. As such, these changes designed to inform players better of the risks of any particular contract should do a really good job of fixing the legitimate gripes people have with courier contracts.
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Posted: Dec 29th 2010 3:46PM Darkdust said

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Red Frog Freight also talks about how they deal with wardecs in their FAQ (http://red-frog.org/faq.php):

"We use out-of-corp freighter pilots. An in-corp alt accepts contracts and then passes them to the out-of-corp pilot. The out-of-corp pilot transports them and then passes them back to the in-corp alt who completes them."

Posted: Dec 29th 2010 5:41PM Dblade said

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That's gaming the system though, and makes red frog as a corp useless. It's also what has killed courier services altogether because anyone can just make a freighter alt in an npc corp and cut out the middleman. If you have to constantly metagame the corp system just to survive, the system is busted.

The ideal with these courier changes should be to encourage actual couriers to rise and be able to operate with moderate risk. Not no risk by letting them game the system, or absurd risk due to the entire burden of collateral being placed on the courier.

These are tiny steps, but good ones. They need to do a lot more: bulk up industrials, make defending them worthwhile as opposed to using cloaking, and start to limit multiple accounts to force dependence and specialization.

Posted: Dec 29th 2010 6:13PM WolvenSpectre said

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Sniff-Sniff

I AM SO HAPPY!

No more making 25 identical contracts for each of 20 places.

Actual full 'Type' Search.

Warnings about Route security or station availability BEFORE accepting the contract.

I am just so... 'sniff'... happppppy

;-P

Posted: Dec 30th 2010 10:09AM Lateris said

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I am really happy about this. I have been selling a ton of robotics.

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