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Posted: Dec 1st 2010 8:21AM Tsume Shiro said

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I am the guild leader of the guild currently named on Vek'nilash US in WoW. this guild has been around since the launch of orig though we have changed names a few times when the number of members dropped below 10 at the end of each version of wow (end of old world, end of BC ect) Just like the last time we reformed this guild we are dedicated to killing w/e that last boss is (Deathwing this time), having fun in PvP (maybe even get some high ranks) and generally playing however you want cause we take any level and skill level of player. recruitment starts on Dec 7th as I level to 85 for the first time though anyone who wants to join from here can just shoot me an IM and just tell me you read this post and you'r in.

Posted: Dec 1st 2010 8:22AM Tsume Shiro said

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@Tsume Shiro guild name is Frozen Wolves. Comment system did not like my side arrows like the game has...
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Posted: Dec 1st 2010 8:30AM Warwitch said

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Any game that I really embrace I ultimately end up being a Guild Master or a Raid Leader. This has been true in both MMO's as well as competitive online games of the past.

For me the trend began in Quake 1. I lead a clan (the term used in that game for guilds) called the QDC, or 'Quake Dragon Clan'. It was my first real experience in taking the helm of a large group of players and leading them into a gib filled future. This was back when 28.8 modems were standard.

From Quake I made my way to Ultima Online and helmed a guild on Pacific called 'The Sisterhood'. We were actually quite successful in the early days, putting a focus on PVE related activity and helping each other succeed. I remember the first day we managed to save enough gold to purchase our own two story guild house near the anvil of the main social hub (who's name I can no longer remember). It turned out to be a real pain as well. We were next to the main flow of traffic so the amount of people harassing us and/or trying to break into our guild house was without end.

Everquest was my next home, and while I never did lead a guild in EQ, I did make officer status and was the lead Monk for a time with a tiny but effective guild called 'Undying'.

I dabbled and moved to various other games where I held tenure as a leader/guild master for quite some time.

My most recent experience with leading others has been in World of Warcraft. After years of being THE guild master, I've learned a valuable lesson that sometimes it's actually better to be the #2 guy. With that in mind I joined a successful raiding guild called 'Paradigm' and rose from the ranks as a lowly Paladin healer, to class lead and eventually raid leader, or the GMs right hand man.

Ultimately though, real life always comes knocking and the amount of time it takes to devote oneself to the daily commitments of being a guild leader take their toll. For now I'm quite happy lurking in the background as a nobody, quietly going about my business with no strings attached.

Posted: Dec 1st 2010 8:54AM gildhur said

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I've led a kinship in LotRO for four years now. We're super casual, so there's not much to "lead", but I'm the figurehead.

Posted: Dec 1st 2010 8:55AM Ocho said

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I find that any MMO I play, I simply don't play it enough to be considered a capable guild leader. I rarely play on weekends, and some nights I come home from work and have a ton of other stuff to do instead... so I might play only once or twice a week. I've tried starting guilds a couple of times and each time, I learned my lesson. Since in real life I have a lot of training in leadership and social dynamics I make a great officer in any guild I'm a part of, but being the head honcho is just not for me. Too many real life commitments.

Posted: Dec 1st 2010 9:10AM Aodhkin said

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I started my first guild in Lotro,but due to problems with the game not liking my credit card i couldn't continue to play the game and that guild died pretty fast.

After that i didn't start a guild for a long time,until Age of Conan.
There i started a guild called "The Bridgeburners" on the EU c-pvp server (twilight) . It was great at the start numbers where good and some great people where in the guild.
But anyone that knows the culture servers on Age of Conan knows the problems the servers started to have.

Low pop and problems with the raiding really took its toll on guilds on the server.

After awhile i aranged a merge with another guild and we became "Imperium". I was co guild leader then.
I really enjoyed that time of my guild leading career,if i can call it that. :P
But again the server came to bite us on the ass and no matter how hard we tried the guild started to fail as the server slowly died.

After that i said i would never run a guild again because Age of Conan took so much out of me. I became raid leader and officer of other guilds in other games after that.

But enough time as passed now and i am thinking of restarting my guild Imperium in another game,looking at Rift for that. I seem to stay in a game longer if i run a guild,and enjoy the game more.

Posted: Dec 1st 2010 9:15AM Ragemore said

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It all started with Stategic-Alliance for Tribes, where I reacher second in command of 200+ clan.

After that played my first MMO and formed my first guild, "The Black Company" and yes I love those books.

Also created and ran Revilers in Wow on several servers, Warhammer Online and Conan.

In Eve created W.A.R. Industries and Strategic Alliance.

Currently laying low as it can be a burn out process, and will go full bore when Guild Wars 2 hits the stands.

Posted: Dec 1st 2010 9:15AM Valdamar said

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I'm usually leader.

It's been my default role in most of the MMO guilds I've started with friends over the last decade. Nobody else wants to lead, so muggins here gets landed with it, just because I did a good job leading big guilds in both EverQuests. I'm usually go-to-guy for all the roles nobody else wants responsibility for - because they know I'll take it seriously, as I hate seeing jobs done half-heartedly, and I do like to have a say in how the guild is run.

But I dislike responsibility and hate having to exercise all the kitten-herding, ego-salving and task-juggling skills required of a good guild leader. Sadly I'm cursed with good organisational skills (my career is in trust & company administration) and I'm not afraid to make unpopular short term decisions for the long term good of the guild. So I usually get stuck with the job.

Now I enjoy leading groups/raids - tactical leadership as I call it - because I like motivating people directly, reacting to immediate needs/dangers, and being the one who decides in what order we'll pick a spawn/dungeon/raid apart. But I don't enjoy all the management required outside of gameplay - strategic leadership as I call it - because that involves far too many administrative and logistical time-sapping tasks that take time away from actual gaming and create stress (especially when you're expected to be the ultimate mediator in all guild feuds/drama) - mainly because the latter just feels like what I do every day for a living, and I don't need a second job.

For those reasons I tend to avoid being in big guilds nowadays - I only really start and lead guilds when it's clear that my friends and I are only going to play the game casually.

That said if I am going to be landed with the leader role then I do appreciate it when MMOs have very robust and extensive guild management tools, because it makes my life easier - I just can't be bothered with running a website and moderating forums just to be able to run a guild in an MMO at the highest level - if the game requires that sort of organisation at top level then the Devs should provide in-game systems to help with that.

In truth I much prefer being one of the officers than the leader. All the good points with very few of the burdens and drawbacks.

Posted: Dec 1st 2010 9:17AM Nolf said

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I am not the leader, but I have been officer in lotro kin the last 3 years(also I am the kin leaders successor in case something happens). I do kinweb news, dkp, lead raids. We focus mainly on pve raiding and we are pretty successful, downed every boss in the game so far.

I have to agree with the post above that being the #2 rank is better deal. Everytime kin mates needs some favour they come to me, and if there is some delicate situation I can send them to our leader.

In my opinion you really have to like the game and have to know how to deal with people. For our kin it is bit easier because we recruit only 18+ players, tho the average age is around 30. It helps because people are more reasonable and it limits the possibility of drama eruption, eventho we had few cases of that.

Leading has its ups and downs, most of the work goes unnoticed, and when something happens people mostly notice only the bad. But there are occasional moments when you get acknowledged for your work, so you need to remember those moments :)

Good thing is we are not very big kin, and we know each other for very long time (1-3 years) so there is no intention to break the kin or cause some damage by silly behaviour.

And I have to give big respect to our kin leader for the dedication he puts in. As I am the second in rank, this allows me to play less and have more free time, I don't need to log in everyday to keep and encourage the kin going the right direction, that is leaders job imho and that is why I always refused to become actual kin leader when I was asked few times.

Posted: Dec 1st 2010 9:39AM Rodj Blake said

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I'm the currently the CEO of my Eve corp, which happens to be one of the oldest in the game.

It certainly has its frustrating moments, but luckily I have some very experienced directors around me and we generally run things as an oligarchy.

Posted: Dec 1st 2010 9:43AM Irem said

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I used to lead a troll-only RP guild in WoW. It was a lot of fun!

Posted: Dec 1st 2010 10:10AM PaperSpeaks said

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heehee, I like the picture you put up....
Assuming those guys strung up are a representation of your guild members.
I wish I could do that....
one day.... one day.

Posted: Dec 1st 2010 10:13AM Chiren said

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Yes. From the experience I realized the immutable truth of the below phrase:

-Having your friends in your guild
-Having a guild free of drama
-Having a guild that raids at least somewhat competently

Pick two.

Posted: Dec 1st 2010 11:04AM Bottleskup said

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@Chiren Ahahahha, so true, so damn true.

It might even be pick one :/
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Posted: Dec 1st 2010 11:29AM Valdamar said

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@Chiren
Yeah that's very true in my experience as well.

Wise words indeed.
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Posted: Dec 1st 2010 11:00AM Erithtotl said

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For someone who claims to hate most MMOs, for some reason I always end up being guild leader, often of very large guilds. Perhaps the two are related?

I believei its because when things go bad, its my natural tendancy to step up and try and fix things, which gets me into trouble.

I led a very large guild back on Pirates of the Burning Sea when it first got going. I also led one of the largest guilds in the Browser based MMO, Astro Empires, for quite a long time. Both times it led me to disillusionment and burnout!

Being the Guild leader is an utterly thankless job. Yes, occasionally you lead people to some great victory, but most of the time, players love to complain about everything they don't like, but want someone else to fix it. A GM is only as good as the people in the guild who are willing to step up and help, and without that, the job can ruin any game.

Posted: Dec 1st 2010 12:03PM XantherX said

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@Erithtotl I agree with you that the Guild Lead job can be thankless at times. But, it's also up to that GM to demand a level of "stfu" from the members of the guild. If you demand respect, but treat your members with respect in kind, the flow of the guild and the events you participate in goes much smoother.

Also, finding people with specific personality qualities that you may not have to help lead the guild is a great thing. Always have redundancy in leadership, but also have more than one personality type.
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Posted: Dec 1st 2010 11:16AM Bottleskup said

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Although I have never been the actual Guild Leader (not counting the just-for-fun Channel 4 News Team guild in EQ2, which never did anything) I always end up as an officer fairly quickly, and often in the role of raid leader/strat former, which is what I like doing, and what I'm good at.

I recently started playing LOTRO to sate my MMO hungers that were beginning to grow again after a year of abstinence from EQ2, and within one week I was made an officer in my kin, despite being completely new to the game. I pride myself on understanding mechanics and really optimising my playing of whatever class i choose, and my fierce dedication to whatever guild I choose, unless it isnt what i was looking for (read: doesnt raid) and i guess that helps for officer selection.

I also agree with Valdamar above, officer is far more fun than leader, from what I've seen in almost 7 years of MMO playing. As an officer, you have the responsiblity and power of decision without the blame, and if anything gets *really* dramatic, as it always does at least once in a guild that attempts to make something of itself, you can just send the situation to the leader and get back to eating cereal :P

Posted: Dec 1st 2010 12:29PM Valdamar said

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@Bottleskup said: "I pride myself on understanding mechanics and really optimising my playing of whatever class i choose, and my fierce dedication to whatever guild I choose, unless it isnt what i was looking for (read: doesnt raid) and i guess that helps for officer selection."

This is what gets me in trouble in MMOs when I join guilds I haven't created - because I like to research both the game mechanics and the lore (an "Explorer" type according to Richard Bartle's MMO/MUD player classifications), and because when I play an MMO I tend to be on almost every evening, I soon get recognised as a knowledgeable player people can depend on.

Knowledge and reliability breeds respect and trust - most players can't be bothered to research things, so they like to have a player who is always around they can just ask advice from - so before I know it I'm in a an officer position because the leader and other guild members come to value my advice.

Not long after I'm the right-hand man of the guild leader, often the one he confides in when he wants to complain about his other officers, lol - and tbh this is my preferred role: The power behind the throne, chief advisor, call it what you will - I like having power, I just don't want to be the target of all the guild drama and scheming when things go badly :p .

Then, knowing my luck, something happens to the guild leader and I'm back in the top seat again, having done absolutely zero canvassing or Machiavellian scheming to get there - it just lands in my lap - that has happened to me three times in the last decade. And sometimes it happens so quickly and easily that I fool myself that things are going to run smoothly this time.

That's usually when you realise that people start to resent guild leaders who have all the answers and seemed to reach their position with no effort whatsoever (from being a founder or inheriting it, rather than being voted in). Just because people really liked you as an officer doesn't mean they'll really like you as their guild leader - it takes different skillsets and imho a different personality - the leader should be more of a people-manager than a system-administrator or the kinds of drillmasters who make good raid leaders. I think it can be pretty fatal to have your guild-leader being your main raid-leader as well - even though I've done both jobs at the same time - because disagreements about raid decisions can soon spread to become guild-wide disaffection - you need the compartmentalisation of different officers being responsible for different parts of a guild's agenda, and all of them having the trust and support of the leader.

In my experience popular guild leaders are the ones who are very personable, but who by all appearances are humble and perhaps even flawed by being ever so slightly ineffectual, so they don't appear superior to the rest of the guild. Popular guild leaders have that "cult of personality" thing going on to hold people together as a guild, but none of the "killer instinct" that could turn it into something really efficient and perhaps slightly sinister (like a dictatorship) and possibly divide the guild into cliques by being too binary in their decisions. They're the kinds of guild leaders who don't take on too much responsibility and have to rely heavily on their officers (and admittedly they struggle if they don't have good officers, or worse have overly ambitious officers who want to replace them), but because of that they can appear fairly blameless when one of their officers mishandle something. A leader who is more of a figurehead than a tyrant (e.g. the "mother hen" type of leader like you see in casual family-type guilds a lot) can ensure the longevity of the guild (as long as they stick around), because they personify the soul of the guild.

Imho those kinds of leaders can work really well (my best EQ1 guild experience had a leader like that - he leaned on me heavily for advice :p ) when backed by some really efficient officers who work well together. They make it clear to members that the guild is being run by multiple people playing to their own strengths, not by one person with a god complex, and that the guild can accommodate all sorts of different people.

Still, I'd much rather be in charge myself than have someone indecisive, power-crazy, stupid or ineffectual person doing the job. Like they say, if you want a job done well you might as well do it yourself :p But you can't take on all of the power yourself without sharing it - or soon the tag of tyrant is being thrown in your direction and your days in charge are numbered.
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Posted: Dec 1st 2010 11:30AM mxt4347564czjv00q9w9qb1tppfr46hb said

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Chiren got it right.

I've been a guild leader once, an officer many times, and a class lead once. Class lead I would do again, the other two? Not while Sol emits photons.

There hasn't been enough money printed or alcohol made since the beginning of human civilization for me to endure those roles again. People are just too broken, and my patience grows thinner every day I get older.

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