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Reader Comments (19)

Posted: Nov 23rd 2010 8:16PM Irem said

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It's encouraging to hear that they chose to do away with a microtransaction that the playerbase vocally disagreed with. It shows that they respect their players and want to offer things they would actually like to buy, instead of betting that players will be compelled to pay to stay competitive, or that there's a larger silent majority who will be willing to buy any advantage.

Also I am ruthlessly stealing and perpetuating the term "merit economy." I love that.

Posted: Nov 23rd 2010 8:37PM Scuffles said

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Certainly encouraging but hardly reassuring.

If I have observed anything over the years its that what a company says or does now, often has little to no bearing on what they will do 6mo to a year down the road.

I'm guessing they backpedaled to give people time to adjust to the idea of spending in the CS. I have yet to see a CS that has gone any length of time without crossing into "game changing" territory. I have however seen the "won't impact gameplay" countless times.

I will honestly keep my fingers crossed that it sticks this time because EvE was an interesting game when last I played it.
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Posted: Nov 24th 2010 7:25AM Irem said

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@Scuffles
It depends. CCP is in an interesting position, because they can't just "casualize" EVE and try to draw in the kind of player who will be happy to pay for game changing items. Usually when a game tries the microtransaction route, it goes hand in hand with an attempt to make the game appeal to a wider variety of people. While it could be argued that Incarna is that attempt, from what I've seen it's mostly just an aesthetic/roleplay thing, and not a move toward making the game more forgiving.

In the case of a more mainstream game, the developers know that even if their diehard fans complain a lot--or even leave--they'll still be raking in money hand over fist from the thousands of people who never post on the forums or anything, but see, "I can buy this now instead of having to wait for it in game? Sweet, where's my credit card?" Games that add microtransactions over the protest of their playerbase are saying that they think you'll probably get used to it and keep playing anyway, or leave and make room for someone who is thrilled to give them money.

That won't work with EVE. EVE is not a game that will ever appeal to an overwhelmingly huge and mainstream group of people. The core playerbase is literally what keeps the game running, because for it to be any fun requires actual player innovation and participation. If CCP were stupid enough to come back six months later and say, "Well, we've thought about it and paid neural remaps are a great idea after all," they'll lose a lot of players, because the target audience for EVE is exactly the type of person who will know what an insult to their intelligence such a move would be (even, maybe, some of the ones who were okay with the idea in the first place). It's a niche game, and they can't afford to piss off their niche playerbase and hope the cash shop makes up the difference.

For anything else though, I would be wary. As much as I'm looking forward to Guild Wars 2, I'm also waiting for the other shoe to drop along the lines of being able to buy Crests, Marks, and Talismans in the cash shop (oh but it's okay because they still drop in game you guys!). When presented with the choice of a smaller playerbase endlessly devoted to you for sticking to your morals or swimming in Scrooge McDuck piles of RL goldz, well, we know how that usually goes.
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Posted: Nov 24th 2010 10:47AM Xilmar said

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@Irem

bulls eye

one thing that makes EVE the best mmo on the market today (strictly personal informed opinion) are the devs. they have a cool game that attracts enough players to keep the ball rolling, and so far they haven't given any real signs of taking the easy way to money route with the game...

things like a 100% safe place, NPC controlled market, carebear friendly pvp, full insurance payback, no podding will hopefully never see the light of day, just because that's not eve, nor should it be.

yes, it's true that eve has a very devoted player base that will not accept dumbing down and will quit en masse. but the thing is that as dedicated their players are, the devs seem to be just as dedicated to what new eden represents. i've read many interviews where they're saying that eve will not change, but evolve. and so far that's what's been done.

read something in an interview from around '05 where they said that one core idea for the game was a player controlled market. and if u look back, overall that's where things have been moving towards...less and less NPC action. another thing is the security system. many people say they quit the trial after getting blown up. well, the devs will probably never change that. why? well, i think it's because 1. it's not the end of the world 2. you almost certainly could have avoided that. 3. HTFU

To get to my point and on subject...adding microtransactions is 100% a business thing that came from the marketing people, not devs. given CCP's history and apparent intentions, this will not change the game in a bad way...just because neither the players nor the people in charge want the game to be something it isn't.
all we need to do, players or not, is to have faith and accept that things might just evolve into something just as good, if not better...and meanwhile HTFU
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Posted: Nov 24th 2010 11:39AM Irem said

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@Xilmar
One thing I found interesting (and a little sad) about the dev post was the way they phrased the reason behind the decision. It sounded a whole lot like, "We're doing this because people love cash shops so much that games that don't have them are being passed over." Whether that's strictly the case or not, gamers usually tend to see microtransactions in terms of greed on the part of the developers, but phrasing it this way puts the spotlight directly on the consumers. Microtransactions wouldn't be the new thing if people weren't paying for them in huge amounts, just as there would be no market for third-party RMT and account sales if people weren't using those services. They're both things gamers are very vocal about, but someone's getting filthy rich off human nature anyway.

"
things like a 100% safe place, NPC controlled market, carebear friendly pvp, full insurance payback, no podding will hopefully never see the light of day, just because that's not eve, nor should it be."

Yeah, even from my observer's perspective I find it hard to believe that a game with its entire culture steeped in tooth-and-nail scrabbling and boardroom politics would have developers who go out of their way to make things softer and kinder for anyone not willing to "HTFU." Without the attitude and atmosphere that both the players and the devs have cultivated, they'd pretty much have to market EVE as an entirely different game.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2010 8:26PM DLemke said

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Wrong title, just wrong. True title, “Neural remaps for PLEXs put on hold” and/or “CCP intends in future to sell vanity items.”

“Eve Online microtransactions won’t impact gameplay” is false, because Eve already is flooded with RMT, flooded with microtransactions.

Players can, and do, buy all the xp (SP) and gold (isk) they want, with real life money, with CCP’s blessing. Anybody can spend all the real life money they want getting all the skills and items they want, using markets set up on CCP’s website.

Fanboys will point out that this occurs between players, and that’s true, but that’s the deception, the thing that gives fanboys and CCP the bit of wiggle room to pretend that it isn’t RMT, when it so obviously is. It is RMT by definition, at least when PLEXs are involved, and there’s no way to get around that.

How does it work? PLEXs are GTCs, game time codes. Other companies sell GTCs at 15 dollars per month, and don’t really care about GTCs much. CCP on the other hand charges 17.50 USD per month for their GTCs. THAT, RIGHT THERE, is why they push PLEXs so hard on customers.

Whenever anybody uses PLEXs to buy gold, or uses PLEXs to pay for game time, CCP gets that little 2.50 USD which seems like nothing in one transaction, but is HUGE when you consider the multitude of PLEX transactions that occur each year.


Example… veteran has three subscriptions, he pays for those with isk for PLEXs, giving gold to some other person for PLEXs, which that other person got with real life money. That happens all the time in Eve. Multiple subscriptions alone are a big scam by CCP, but tabling that discussion for now… look at 2.50x12monthsx3 accounts… 90 USD extra per year for that veteran over a normal 15/month subscription fee you might see in another game, just because of PLEX involvement alone.

Microtransactions, paying real life money for any skills or items you want, already affect game play, and have in the game since basically forever.

Posted: Nov 23rd 2010 8:48PM Scuffles said

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Your being a spoilsport.
Let them have their "sandbox" to muck around in with their rose colored glasses. Its more fun when they don't acknowledge it. They stay blissfully unaware and we keep getting drama stories about the latest trillion dollar ISK heists. Its a Win/Win/Win
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Posted: Nov 24th 2010 9:38AM axler said

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@DLemke

please stop trolling.

I buy gtcs from shattered crystal for 35 dollars. Since im from europe, I pay with euro, so that is 26 euro. divided by two its 13 euro, and that is two plexes. (normal subscriptions is 15 euro). so by using plexes, I pay 2 euro less to CCP, not two euro more as you said. Not to mention CCP sells codes to shattered at a discount.

yes, there is rmt in eve. has been for a while. and it is a good thing. it is not the type of microtransactions, where you pay to get stuff that the company simply creates in the virtual world for you. Players can trade game time cards for isk(gold) between themselves. you cant buy sp(xp) from CCP. and you cant buy isk(gold) from CCP. All the money that is paid to CCP, via any means (gtc, plex, cc), is sooner or later used for subscription time, maybe not by the person who originally bought it, but by someone. so all the money paid to CCP is used for subscription (well not completely true, you can get shit from their store, or pay for a character transfer, but that is besides the point).

this is a very, very good thing, because it lets people with no money, play and make isk in the game, and the trade that for subscription time. it also lets people with lots of money and no time play, because they don't have to grind.
At the same time it keeps the economy safe, because isk is not just made op from thin air, but it comes, from another player.
And at the same time, by providing an official legal alternative which wont get players banned, you combat the unofficial rmters by giving them competition. But not competition from CCP, as they are not in the rmt market, and do not profit from it. competition from the players, as they are the ones on the rmt market, as the trade amongst themselves.

its a very good system, but people don't understand it, and then make stupid statements about it.
or worse, they do understand it, and then they just troll about it.

Course all of the above will change in a year or so, as you will be able to use plex to buy vanity items. Then, CCP will be making stuff out of thin air for your rl money.
which makes me sad...at lest its vanity items...but still sad :(
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Posted: Nov 24th 2010 10:33AM Scuffles said

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You left out the part where earlier in the year they made plex portable and created two new ways for it to be "spent"

By being stolen by pirates .... tho the person transporting it probably deserved it.

By being flat out destroyed in game, meaning that the Plex need never be honored by CCP.... tho the person transporting/raiding probably deserved it.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2010 8:54PM DemonXaphan said

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The plex system was CCP's way of combating the rampant rmt that was hurting the game and gave a way for one set of players to play for free while another gained enough isk to buy what they wanted.

Basically money never left the game and CCP saw profits and population growth, so that micro-transaction never impacted the game in a way to break it. With the neural remaps the players were right to voice their concerns as that would provide some with the means to be an abused system.

Posted: Nov 23rd 2010 8:56PM UnknownUser said

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I'm hoping they decide to fund these RMT's in some way besides Plex. Direct cash payment perhaps. More uses for Plex are bound to drive up the market price from the 360 million or so we've all gotten comfortable with. On the other hand it's bound to be a boon to the folks selling them who are often new players trying to get their initial stake in the game.

Posted: Nov 23rd 2010 9:14PM Its Utakata stupid said

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Brendan Drain posted:

"...adding that CCP would 'evolve just like everyone else' and would 'certainly not become a dinosaur."

Microtransactions are in fact an evolutionary step backwards.

Posted: Nov 23rd 2010 10:59PM kgptzac said

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@Its Utakata stupid

"Evolutionary step backwards"... funny sarcasm I take?

Anyhow, I am glad that the plan has been scrapped solely for the fear of the price inflation if this is implemented. Hopefully CCP will come up a better plan in the future that acoomdates both the players and themselves.
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Posted: Nov 24th 2010 1:22AM Streamweaver said

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I'm not really sure why people are upset about this overall. There is already a problem with money in the game and has been for a long time.

Almost from the beginning Eve pushes the more "hard core" players to run multiple accounts.

The addition of PLEX has been good overall but I also think this has many downsides. It's a way to support the multiple account paradim, it just moves the burden of paying for it off to another player. The biggest negative impact it it takes away the need for CCP to balance the game and resources.

So money has long been a part of Eve, I'm not sure why the concern about this in particular.

Posted: Nov 24th 2010 5:26AM Rodj Blake said

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CCP have made the right decision regarding the sale of respecs.

Here's what unlimited respecs would mean: players who have lots of ISK or RL cash would effectively have maximum scores in all attributes. This would either render the whole attribute system meaningless (ie all skills train at maximum speed no matter what attributes they're based on) or provide a large advantage to older, more experienced players.

The argument that something must be a good idea because other MMOs do it doesn't really hold water for me because Eve isn't other MMOs and it's at its best when it's a leader not a follower. And after all, most other MMOs also have elves but I think that we can all agree that they wouldn't fit in with Eve's background ;)

I still have concerns over the sale of so-called "vanity items" for PLEX, but CCP are to be congratulated anyway.

Posted: Nov 24th 2010 6:14AM Xilmar said

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Hell, i remember some similar discussions on various sites when the Plex system was introduced...

microtransactions in eve was expected...and that's progress...and like everything else progressive, most people will have a problem with it. it's the very human fear of change. everyone's a hardass online, protected by anonimity, but deep inside most really have large sad puppy eyes.

everyone that's actually playing the game at the moment...it will not affect the skills nor will it give an advantage for the fleet, so why not embrace it. hell, to me it just represents a good gift idea for my eve playing mates. CCP once again listened to the community and adapted, so it might be best for the players now to listen to CCP and trust they know what's best for new eden.


Oh, and DLemke, i read most of your wall of vomit...u obviously never played eve, or only a trial...but just wanted to point out for others that might not know, eve sub is 15 euros...plex, game time codes, credit card, it's 15 euros.there's no conspiracy, no scheme, no trick...just 15 euros/month

Posted: Nov 24th 2010 12:12PM Javajunky said

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Next time you folks want something in the game fixed, remember the fact the fact that this revenue is not available. I find it that Eve players are some of the biggest complainers in the game about stuff not being right however they will deny the developers revenue opportunities to which funds could be allocated. The kids posting here and in the forums have no idea what managing operational costs along with development costs entail.

Never mind the fact that PLEX for Neural Remaps are nothing but an adjunct to the RMT activity already existing in the game such as buying a player in the character bazaar. The biggest complainers in the game are the Sr. guys who slugged it through the long trudge to get the SP's they have. Essentially by disallowing neural remaps, it will take longer for new players to get the requisite skill points necessary to be viable in null sec where you play. Essentially putting a roadblock to the growth of null sec space. Way to shoot yourselfs in the foot guys, sacraficing more players getting active into the game for the sake of your own SP epeens. Way to think that one through.

Posted: Nov 25th 2010 1:26AM kgptzac said

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@Javajunky

Although I am generally pro-microtransaction, but I can't overlook this "analysis" that is based purely on imagination. Are you working for CCP? Do you know what is their "operational cost" and how much more revenue they expected to earn if they implement this?

If you care to read all the replies both in massively and on official forum then you would know the issue isn't old players getting butthurted because new players have means to gain SP faster than before. Two biggest points against PLEX for remaps is 1) making precedent of more "pay2win" style of microtransaction items for the future and 2) immediate impact on PLEX's price in game.

Lastly, I don't know where the logic of "no PLEX for remap delays new player of getting into nullsec" comes from. The essential skills needed for basic pvp is very easy to train and it is a waste of money/isk to use PLEX on training those skills. Do you define "new players" as someone who is willing to spend unlimited amount of RL cash in a game they just started playing? Average new players are less likely to spend either rl cash or isk on buying PLEX compare to, say, alt accounts of older players. To new players who are making enough isk for PLEX, they will be redeeming the PLEX for game time, not neural remap for marginal gain in gaining SP.
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Posted: Jan 23rd 2011 2:21PM Valkesh said

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RMT has always been a major part of Eve since they started encouraging multiple accounts and PLEX trade. The whole thing is one giant metagame and considering they've gone this far, you may as well let people just directly paying for power rather than the indirect farce that goes on now.

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