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Reader Comments (24)

Posted: Nov 23rd 2010 6:53PM blackcat7k said

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I really don't why you're promoting this game so strongly on Massively all of a sudden. This game has changed for the worse. The upsurge in new characters won't last as long as the major imbalances of a time equals power structure remain at its core.

These PvP tips are all fluff that people who play PvP in MMOs would know off the top of their head without someone telling them.

Aventurine is very strange in continually promoting this smoke screen that game can be a joy to get into.

DF, point blank, is vet top heavy. Vets have a RIDICULOUS advantage in base attributes that the average player won't be able to catch up to without a solid 6 months to a YEAR of near constant play.

Tell people that this game is not so much about skill as it is about your gear and stats. Also tell them that the suggestion to clan up isn't going to help them unless their clan mates can babysit them the whole time they're playing.

Don't market it this a spiritual successor to UO pre-Trammel that had at least had a system that allowed new player to come in and get up to speed in a few weeks.

Here's some PvP tips that should have been right at the top:

Realize that this all loot PvP requires a ridiculous time commitment to get a BORDERLINE combat ready character.

You will need to macro your character doing inane tasks for hours on end to get your skills to a high enough level to leave the realm of complete cannon fodder.

There is no real protection phase for character when you come in. That hour protection for a new character is it. After that you will be griefed to high heaven by players while an unhelpful community will tell you to suck it up and enjoy.

You will find people to help you and you will find a clan to join. However as I said before they are not going to be on all the time you are, and the jokers who will find and gank your pitiful character will vastly out number them.

This is a bottom feeder MMO. New players will be harassed because those players in the middle cannot think to challenge the vets and will thus attack new players.

Vets not having any challenge due to time spent on their character through macroing will have nothing to challenge them and thus will probably waste their time coming to grief you new players as well.

Welcome to Darkfall. Enjoy your time.

Posted: Nov 23rd 2010 8:15PM Jef Reahard said

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@blackcat7k

We're reporting on it because it's different and has enough of a following to merit occasional coverage.

I logged nearly 30 hours of Darkfall play time last week in service of my Choose My Adventure column and had an absolute blast. Sure it's not for everyone, but you're exaggerating the difficulties faced by new players, particularly those that join a clan and/or bring friends.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2010 8:48PM paterah said

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Keep at it Jef. I might not be playing the game right now but I can see the team is working hard on it, if they can work on the UI and the visuals a bit they might attract a larger crowd other than the heavy hardcores and I might give it a try cause it looks good for my tastes. As for blackcat7k, do you seriously hate the game so much that you don't want any writers to be writing about it? That is very very arrogant, I'm at a loss of words...............
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2010 11:35PM Freakgod said

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Loss of words here as well!
Blackcat7k's post is pretty informative once you beat back the hate. He outlines key points within the game that tend to get swept under the rug when these games are reviewed.
1. Do I have to grind to compete?
2. Does leveling / skill up involve mundane tasks?
3. Can I check out some content before being thrown to the wolves?
4. Above all else does time = power?
UI and visuals are fantastic and a must for any MMO that expects to compete but in the end it's just a skin job. If the apple is rotten at its core no amount of flash or coverage will beef up the player base for the long term.
On Blackcat7k's behalf...... at least he/she has spent some time in the game and isn't posting to polish an ego.

Posted: Nov 24th 2010 12:04AM Jef Reahard said

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@Freakgod

Not sure if you're referring to me, but I'm posting because I get paid to do it, lol.

Anyway, regarding Darkfall, the answer to all four of your questions is "yes," just like it is in every other MMO. Yes you have to grind to compete in PvP. Yes, leveling skills involves repetition. The good news, from my perspective, is that it happens during the normal course of playing the game and exploring the world, as opposed to themepark grinds where there's a certain way you should be doing everything for optimum grinding efficiency. Yes you can check out content whenever you like, particularly if you join a good clan and don't expect to solo everything. And yes, time equals power.

Again, it's an MMO, is this really a shock to anyone?
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Posted: Nov 24th 2010 12:13AM Freakgod said

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@Jef Reahard

My apologies for being unclear Jef.
The post was directed to paterah who seems to be posting on your behalf without any knowledge of the game in question. I understand you get paid to review these games and in no manner was I trying to cast a shadow on you or your work.
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Posted: Nov 24th 2010 1:12AM Jef Reahard said

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@Freakgod

Np, I wasn't sure. I appreciate the comments regardless.
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Posted: Nov 24th 2010 8:21AM paterah said

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@Freakgod

My post came off a bit biased I'd say, I know blackcat7k had a constructive post and it seems he has played the game, but when I read the other day about how Jef wrote too many post on another game (TERA) and someone was WAY too serious about it.. I mean..seriously, as long as there is news on a game to write about then why not do it, it's not like 1000 cats die everytime someone writes an article about the game..or is it?
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Posted: Nov 24th 2010 8:39AM Bartlebe said

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@Jef Reahard

Well the thing a lot of new players in Darkfall don't realize is the sheer scope of the skills they must slog through. They're don't have proper perspective.

As a new player killing goblins, skeleton, zombies, kobolds, trolls or any of those other newbie mobs, anything that drop is more or less worthless. The spell mats are useful, as are the arrows. The leather, chain or banded armor you're lugging around is so far down the ladder, PKs wont even bother looting it.

Your weapon skill probably isn't 50 yet. Once you get to 75, you get to start the grind all over again with Weapon Mastery.

The myriad of spells and spell schools take ages to level up. What makes this even worse is that they're all really necessary if you're going to compete on any real level. It's going to take you months and months and months to level up some of these spells and schools just so you can get to the next one and start leveling that one up.

The skill grinds just lead to more skill grinds. They're piled on top of one another in an endless chain that will have you always grinding something up so you can get to the next thing you must grind.
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Posted: Nov 24th 2010 10:55AM Jef Reahard said

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@Bartlebe

Yeah, you just described every MMO in existence, including Darkfall, lol. I appreciate and enjoy the game because it's a world as opposed to a linear carrot chase. When I get tired of grinding, I can do other things.

I get that this doesn't appeal to a lot of people, but the constant "Darkfall sucks" public service announcements aren't necessary.
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Posted: Nov 24th 2010 11:18AM Bartlebe said

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@Jef Reahard

Perhaps I didn't articulate my point well enough.

I never said something so blanket as "Darkfall sucks!" There are a lot of things that are fun about Darkfall.

With your limited experience, maybe you aren't fully catching sight of what lies before you. Comparing Darkfall to other MMOs is a straw man argument that proves nothing.

Delve into magic some. Try to raise your important stats ( strength, vitality and quickness) to respectable amounts. Spend some time trying to raise your toughness, rigor, muscular or any of the other passive skills. You'll see what we're talking about.

Do you have Greater Magic yet? Spell Chanting? Witchcraft? Any elemental schools? Don't take my word for it, see for yourself.

Also, you do realize that you're being "kid gloved" by people in the Darkfall community right? There are groups of people that are organized and patrol around your known play times, scaring off reds and keeping your area safe. People are intentional manipulating your experience so you see nothing but sunshine and rainbows.
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Posted: Nov 24th 2010 12:03PM Jef Reahard said

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@Bartlebe

I just got greater magic on my main last night, and as I've said several times already, spell/skill grinding is considerable, I don't deny it.

That said, I don't see how comparing Darkfall's grind to the grind in every other game is a straw man. The point that the detractors seem to be hanging on to is that the grind is so horrific as to cause people to be unable to enjoy the game. While that may be true in cases of people who play MMOs solely for progression, it's not true of everyone, and certainly not of me.

As to the kid glove supposition, that's something that I was afraid of when starting the CMA series, which is why I've re-activated my original account and have been playing that character (anonymously) as well. The funny thing is, he's died less than my Mahirim.

Maybe we're witnessing a kinder, gentler Darkfall? Lol, I doubt it. It's more likely that you have to either seek out PvP or be really clumsy and unable to avoid it when you wish.

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Posted: Nov 24th 2010 1:32AM Song7 said

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I had something to say about this game except BlackCat said it already. Shiny turds are still turds.

Posted: Nov 24th 2010 4:10AM tyrogon said

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i feel what blackcat is saying isnt really fair and at the end it just seemed negative.
i want to just say your a power gamer. they are the ones who complain about catching up to vets in skills when you really dont need to.
i originally typed this long rant to explain stuff but i think i will just say this.
a vets best advantage is his experience
yes i agree adventurine is concentrating to much on aesthetics atm, but the game is very playable.
what you say about clans/people not helping is completely false
it isnt hard to find a helpful clan, i have never not been in one.
if someone is helping you its hard for them not to get something out of it.
dieing isnt a big deal. if you play right you wont lose much
any player can help a group do anything in this game, you dont need to play for long time to be useful.
in the end i left alot of details out but i feel i got the key points out, if you never played the game dont talk down on it and if it wasnt for you then leave it at that.

Posted: Nov 24th 2010 9:27AM ColRoofles said

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@tyrogon I thought players like you died out long ago. You're either hugely misinformed, to put it mildly, or lying. Sure, you don't need to grind; unless you care about staying competitive. And I don't know about you, but being able to compete in games that are all about PVP is a pretty big deal to a lot of people. Your PVP/DFO experience does not matter one bit if you're up against a "high level", well equipped character. Only after you do your share of grinding and macroing can you attempt to really play the game like it's meant to be played.
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Posted: Nov 24th 2010 7:04AM Kalec said

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I rly like darkfall, I'm also very new so I don't know if what I say matters that much ... but uhm ... the tips were very weak and general (except for the DON'T JUMP LIKE A TWAT)

Posted: Nov 24th 2010 7:47AM blackcat7k said

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If you see something and it stinks. Don't say anything about it? Sorry. Life doesn't roll like that. I'm quite sorry but when I read all this gushing praise about Darkfall and NO one is even remotely telling people how it is. Then yes I will say something.

I don't care about the vets having awesome powers in the game in addition to their play experience.

I DO have a problem with people not talking about the 800 pound gorilla in the room, which is this enormous gulf you have to clear to even attempt to engage in the PvP.

If you're only relegated to running with your clan mates and then hiding the rest of the time because you know if you venture out two far you'll catch an arsewhooping from opponents that you can't even attempt to fight back against.

Constantly having to deal with an opponent you can't possibly scratch or even disengage from is enjoyable for only so long.

This was annoying with WoW PvP servers. This is absolutely ridiculous in a game that's suppose to get away from a grind = power scenario and focus on player skill .

You can paint this happy sunshine and bunnies scenario, when you know that's not how it's going to be for players when they get deep into Darkfall.

Probably I'm just surprised that even the defenders of Darkfall hold up this standard set by Aventurine and try to talk down and dissension among the ranks when this system will chase away people from DF in the long run.

Don't give out this pap article talking about "PvP tips" when it's a bunch of pablum that won't really help a player starting out in Darkfall.

How about a real PvP tip:

Are you starting in Darkfall?

Then grab yourself AutoIt at:
http://www.autoitscript.com/autoit3/index.shtml

Then trot your happy self over to:
http://www.elitepvpers.de/forum/darkfall-macros/

Don’t mind about the fact that unattended macroing is prohibited. Because everyone that you see running around with 100% sprint, crouch walk, riding, swimming, running, jumping didn’t do that through just regular play.

Now get cracking at having the game play itself so you're not bent over during your clan's off time when the newbie hunters are on the prowl.

Posted: Nov 24th 2010 9:37AM Kalec said

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@blackcat7k srry man but you are a sad power lvl-er

Macroing in this game is doing the things you do. Did you get that ? doing the things you do ... not doing things that are out of your way or that require additional effort.
Want max sprint, then sprint a lot while you're going about doing your stuff.
Want max crouch ? Crouch a lot while hiding from players, mobs, stuff.
Want swimming .... ok here you need to swim (this might be a bit out of your way tbh, but just go naked and auto swim while watching a sitcom if you so desperatly want max swim)

So on and so forth. This is an MMO and like any other MMO you can't reach the top from the very start.

While you may be an older player than me (as in have played longer) ... you need to take a step back and see things from a new perspective
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Posted: Nov 24th 2010 10:53AM Jef Reahard said

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@blackcat7k

Again, how is this different from any other MMO? The point is that there are other things to do in Darkfall besides killing other players. The same can't be said with most themeparks. If all you want out of Darkfall is "balanced" PvP, play an FPS instead.

Also, no one is avoiding the 800 lb gorilla regarding grinding to be competitive. That's common knowledge and no one who has played the game can dispute it with a straight face. It's only a problem for players who lack the imagination to play the rest of the game though. And again, to beat the horse, show me an MMO that doesn't have it.
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Posted: Nov 24th 2010 5:04PM ColRoofles said

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@Jef Reahard and @Kalec You two are living in denial. The same scenario has been repeating itself since the beta of the game started. It goes somewhat like this: An experienced player who either got his skills maxed or got up to a point where progressing his character is about as entertaining as working in a coal mine comes to the forum and complains, rightly so, about the incredibly slow skill/stat gain, then some know-it-all newbie who just got greater magic (rofl) unlocked on his main comes along and tells him how the skill progression isn't really that bad and besides, the game isn't about skill progression anyway.

Well, this might come as a huge shock to you both as you seem to be pretty new to this whole PVP thing, but 99% of the people in Darkfall want to have fun by PVPing. Crazy, right? But there's more! Get this: They won't be able to have any fun until they develop their characters' skill and stats. A newbie cannot touch a veteran char, he'd sooner die of exhaustion or boredom trying to do any signifact damage.

It's pretty much the same in other games, but there is no reason for developers to perpetuate and for us to accept this sort of flawed design. The only people who are happy with the situation where a newbie cannot touch their pimped out one year old char and are of the opinion that the game should stay unbalanaced in their favor, beacuse they somehow deserve to be able to completely destroy anyone who hasn't played the game for as long as they have with one hit without even trying are the ones who know well that they simply suck at the game and wouldn't stay competitive for much longer if every newbie was allowed to get to their level quicker. "Play an FPS instead." Laughable.

And no, macroing is NOT the problem. Macroing = shortcut to maxing out your skills/stats. So let's say, for the sake of the argument, that it takes 6 months of normal play or 6 weeks of macroing to get to where you need to cap your char. Whether it takes you 6 months or 6 weeks does not matter to a newbie who starts playing the game, say, a year later. He will need to catch up to your level one way or another. It seems to me like you (Kalec) are the one who needs to take a few steps back and try to look at it from a different perspective. Some people do not want to serve as punching bags for a few long months; they want to PVP in a PVP game. This really isn't that hard of a concept.

I'm sure you have a lot of superb ideas about everyone should play the game to enjoy it etc., but I've been following, beta-testing, playing the game longer than you knew it existed and I've heard it all, so just don't bother. Whether you can see it now or not, you are wrong. Stop posting. The problem of skill and stat discrepancy between new players and vets has been around since the very beginning and it's one of the reasons this game is dying. AV has been doing everything to avoid tackling this issue in a proper manner, including trying to implement an offline leveling system we found out about through one of their recent announcements, which most clearly indicates that SOMETHING is wrong.
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