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Reader Comments (12)

Posted: Nov 13th 2010 1:57AM (Unverified) said

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I'm very happy they are making changes it makes us gamers happy they pay attention to what we say!

Posted: Nov 13th 2010 6:04AM xBludx said

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Even though I don' t really have enough time to play, I still stay subbed to this one. It's the best existing sandbox (besides EVE - which I don't like because the of the spaceship avatar thing).

Posted: Nov 13th 2010 7:31AM halfcaptain said

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As per my comment below, this comment is henceforth EXHIBIT A. You don't have much time to play, but you've stayed subbed. Know what i'm saaaaayin?
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Posted: Nov 13th 2010 7:29AM halfcaptain said

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Even though i'm into EVE, offline levelling on its own is a great idea, and it's nice to see it in another game. It seems to reduce the grind, but the best thing about it (I've found) is that it mitigates the compulsive nature of MMOs in general. It does this in a way that is significant because while making the game less addictive, it doesn't seem to impact playabilty. I play EVE when I feel like it, and I don't feel like I'm falling behind when I don't feel logging on (or I really don't have time to play).

Posted: Nov 13th 2010 11:33AM Dblade said

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Eve's offline leveling doesn't cost ISK though. In DF you need to earn gold then pay it to use this, so you would have to play to fund not playing. It's more a way for the people to catch up than it is any real convenience. Rather than put skill caps up.

This is also limited, so while you are advancing some skills, the rest you still need to grind out in use. My guess is that the skills you pay gold for are the ones people used to macro. So you are paying just to be competitive.

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Posted: Nov 13th 2010 3:30PM halfcaptain said

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"Eve's offline leveling doesn't cost ISK though."

i pretty sure i can make the case that EVE's offline skill training /does/ cost isk. basically all non-rolled skills cost isk, plain and simple. in fact most upper-tier skillbooks are fairly expensive. within the first few months of eve character, you'll most likely run into some skills that cost upwards of 10 million apiece. this is before the cost of learning implants, if you so choose, to improve your (offline!) training speed. so tell me how this isn't paying isk for offline training. money and standings become the prime motivators for most in eve, not skill grinding (which basically doesn't happen). KNOW YOUR SHIT
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Posted: Nov 14th 2010 8:16AM mikejr said

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Halfcaptian,

In Eve, training skills does not require isk to function, and most corps will provide new players with the basic skillbooks...

Isk is not automatically deducted from you account to enable the feature, there's a fundamental difference in execution.

Posted: Nov 15th 2010 5:23PM halfcaptain said

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I'm not too familiar with Darkfall, but I think you've misunderstood my point. My assertion was that Darkfall's offline training actually DOES cost money (or gold or whatever). This is kind of wacky, but here's my logic. Bear with me:

Let's assume that the ultimate goal of playing an mmo is to be successful, at least insofar as we can while having fun anyway. For our in-game character, this success in most games manifests largely as acquiring material wealth in some form or another. Increasing our strength as a character is also important, but I think this is for the most part complimentary to the bond between success and in-game material riches. We like seeing big numbers and big possibilities when we see our characters, and for most people having a clear indicator of financial flexibility allows us to more easily indulge ourselves and persue the adventure we are paying for. So basically, in both EVE and Darkfall, our overriding impulse as an entity in that world is to optimize our game experience. We do this by following a regimen; a training cycle. As per the nature of most mmos, we have 3 major components in our character's pursuit of "success."

t = time. As I understand it, both EVE and Darkfall have a constant training time based on rolled attributes. They are different, but more on this in a second.

m = the mob-killing strength of our character. Put more broadly, the optimal strength of our character relative to the game environment. This is of course complimentary to our pursuit of success.

$ = take a guess. Er, in-game material wealth. This is money, mounts, spaceships, flaming arrows, whatever.

Alright, chekkiddoud:

EVE> t=m=$=t=m=....

DARKFALL> m=$=t=m=...

In EVE, we roll a constant training time, we kill mobs or mine, we aquire wealth, we use that wealth to, primarily, optimize our training, we kill mobs.. and so on.

In Darkfall, (you roll a constant training time) you kill mobs or mine, you aquire wealth, you use that wealth to optimize your training, you kill mobs... etc.

In both cases, as you can see, material wealth is before the optimized (offline, sped-up, whatever) training time. SO, offline training time in both games, insofar as it is a competitive advantage or a means to better your gaming experience, /does take money/.

The apple and orange problem here is that there is a double bond, so to speak, in the training cycle of Darkfall between killing mobs and our optimization of our constant training time. Since EVE doesn't involve grinding mobs or mining for skill exactly, we have a pretty significant difference between games. However, if you consider implants and training clones in EVE, we almost have a fair comparison. As I understand it, you pay for an optimized constant training time, albiet temporary, the same way a pilot would pay for decent EVE learning implants and a clone.

I think that makes sense. Hopefully you'll agree. By the way:

"most corps will provide new players with the basic skillbooks..."

This is beside the point. I am sure that in Darkfall, from time to time, some players lend or give others objects or money that provide a means to optimize their skill progression. If that's not true, then I Darkfall is a one lonely game.

My brain hurts.
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Posted: Nov 14th 2010 12:27PM Denzo76 said

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This sounds good. I'm glad they are implementing it slowly. I can see alot of new alts being created because of this as well. Very curious to see what skills will be available initially. And how fast it raises skills.


Posted: Nov 15th 2010 5:33PM halfcaptain said

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lol, I was admiring my excessive handiwork when i noticed i flubbed my "assertion." that should say "My assertion was that EVE's offline training actually DOES cost money"
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Posted: Nov 15th 2010 5:31PM halfcaptain said

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Also:

"Isk is not automatically deducted from you account to enable the feature, there's a fundamental difference in execution."

To me, that is the same as saying you've purchased a more optimal training time and your money has left your wallet. I buy +5 learning implants, I jump to a learning clone, I have a more optimal training time. This is more or less the same as purchasing a more optimal constant training time that has both the advantage of being offline and not requiring the attention of the more direct way (which doesn't exist in EVE). I think the two games are kinda on similar ground.

Posted: Dec 11th 2010 10:49PM platinum said

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Hi
I like
platinum training solutions

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