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Reader Comments (10)

Posted: Nov 13th 2010 7:01AM dudes said

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If the CSM ever read this, tell them to hurry up with the Incarna expansion already!

Posted: Nov 13th 2010 7:04AM dudes said

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No pressure! :D
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Posted: Nov 13th 2010 9:22AM Javajunky said

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These guys are the biggest waste of 0's and 1's in the game. Seriously, they should just be done away with as it's really just a marketing / PR thing put in place. CCP is going to do what it wants to do anyway.

Airfare is cheap at thier corporate discount, expensing these guys up for a little lip service is no big sweat of thier backs.

Might as well redo the forums and let the CCP guys post survey's and let people vote up or down and get rid of these no talent @ss clown ego maniacs.

Posted: Nov 13th 2010 3:03PM ScottishViking said

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Why don't you tell us how you REALLY feel?
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Posted: Nov 13th 2010 4:23PM DLemke said

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It's true. CCP just does what they want anyway, while using the CSM as a PR stunt.

Some devs and some CSM do have a good working relationship, but "Over the past few years, EVE Online's democratically elected Council of Stellar Management has had an increasingly large impact on the game," That statement has nothing to do with the facts.

CCP regularly just does what it feels like out of the blue without consulting the CSM at all.

The changes that CCP does implement, are suggestions that anyone could've seen on the regular forums or third party forums anyway, but CCP attributes to the CSM once in a while to make it look like the CSM had anything to do with it.






Posted: Nov 13th 2010 4:40PM Brendan Drain said

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I can't help but feel you are completely missing the point. Of course any player discussing issues on the forum could come up with the same suggestions as the CSM, that's WHERE the suggestions the CSM pushes to CCP actually come from. The CSM's primary job is to collect those ideas from players, determine which ones have merit and bring them directly to the developers so they don't go unnoticed.

In years gone by, EVE was a small enough game that the developers were able to do this themselves by just reading the forum. Nowadays, trying to find a sensible idea on the forum is like trawling through sewer mud looking for gold. It's not economically feasible to pay someone to trawl the forums, but the CSM is a group of players who volunteer to do it on CCP's behalf.
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Posted: Nov 13th 2010 4:52PM rhorle said

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So the devs can't be bothered to look at their own community for ideas and must create a group of players (which get a free trip to HQ so aren't purely volunteers). The community should be doing this on its own.

The fact that you state the CSM filters idea's proves it doesn't fit the role they are supposed to serve as stated by you. Collect idea's from the community to provide to the developers.

What happens when you have a great idea that could make Eve a great game but a CSM doesn't agree? You've pissed off the player? You've just pulled off a scam in-game? If the CSM has to filter idea's to present then they are a failure as a developer design council. Also the fact that many of the info articles posted here about CSM revolve around their dissatisfaction with CCP and getting CSM things implemented futher shows they aren't anything useful.

CCP holding the same talks with the community can serve the same goal. Without the need of figurehead community representatives.
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Posted: Nov 13th 2010 5:24PM Brendan Drain said

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That's the entire point of there being a player elected council and not just one person or employee filling the role of collecting ideas from the community. While individual members of the council might disagree that an issue is important, issues that pass a majority vote are discussed with CCP. Players can vote on issues on the forum to indicate their support, and highly voted ideas are checked by the CSM for validity. So far, they've done a particularly good job of remaining impartial and passing all the really important issues to CCP for further discussion. But don't take my word for it, the minutes of every meeting including which issues were accepted and which were turned down are a matter of public record. You can find them on EVElopedia.

And no, this has nothing to do with devs being too lazy to read the forums or hold discussions directly with players. That's the way it used to be, with live dev chats on IRC and devs routinely discussing ideas with players on the forum. What changed is EVE's subscriberbase outgrew that direct communication. If they tried doing an open chat now, you'd just get hundreds of people spamming it. And lord knows the forums have grown huge since I started playing in 2004. Good ideas are rapidly smothered under pages of rubbish, and having someone to sift through it all is most certainly useful.
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Posted: Nov 13th 2010 8:41PM DLemke said

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First… seldom mentioned, something that renders the CSM entirely beside the point of any serious discussion about the game is… only around 10 percent of players ever vote for the CSM. If voting is free, easy, just a click of a button, presented as you log in, the issue not hidden on some obscure forum somewhere, and yet still only 1 out of 10 people bother… You know something is wrong. Either the players don’t trust the CSM, or CCP, or both, when it comes to this long running PR stunt. The CSM, in fact, does NOT represent the Eve player base and is NOT, in fact, representative of the player base.

Also… what are you talking about with the increasing player base making it too difficult to bring suggestions to the company without a CSM? Are you kidding? Other gaming companies don’t use CSMs, nor should they. By your logic, Blizzard is beyond crippled when it comes to receiving player feedback because it has maybe 100x or more players now than did Eve before Eve got ‘too big’ to work without a CSM. Lol. Do major corporations outside gaming remain crippled because they don’t have customer voted councils advising them? No. Any decent businesses, ,including gaming companies, have many ways other than crackpot CSM-like stunts, to get customer input.

Posted: Nov 14th 2010 6:46AM Benicio said

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About the same amount vote in the US elections.
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