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Reader Comments (38)

Posted: Nov 10th 2010 8:20AM Lobotomist said

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Not having any (meaningful) random loot is my main gripe with MMORPG's

99% of MMOs have loot tables instead or random loot. So given MOB will drop certain pre defined things from its loot table based on random roll.

Also quest reward or crafted items will be more powerful than loot in most cases.


Now that really irks me. If you all ready grinding, why not have element where you can have randomly generated loot drop. Get that gamble effect. Keep things interesting.

Not everyone having exactly the same items.


So yes...there is no random loot in MMOs

If you know one that has it, please do tell !


Posted: Nov 10th 2010 2:47PM DarkWalker said

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I'm your opposite; I hate RNG when getting meaningful loot with such a passion, that one of the main reasons I'm thinking about leaving WoW is it's random loot (even if limited to a fixed loot table).

The way I've found to keep playing without feeling frustrated by the loot system was to keep the very existence of raid loot out of my mind, to the point I don't even know what are the potential gear upgrades I could get for my main character. Otherwise I would probably have burned out in a month or two.

But then, while there are people who like to gamble, I have almost a phobia to gambling, so I admit I'm not your typical player.
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Posted: Nov 10th 2010 8:28AM Madallaw said

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Not a fan of random loot myself.

But then, I just hate killing the same mob 100 (or hundreds) of times go get the loot. I don't mind working for meaningful loot, I would just rather it be an undertaking of a massive quest chain, or perhaps some epic quest chain than kill 'this' mob 'this' many times for a 'chance' that the item you need drops.

Plus killing the same boss over and over again kinda ruins the immersion of a game...

:P

Posted: Nov 10th 2010 8:31AM Madallaw said

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Realized I put massive quest chain and epic quest chain... similar. I curse not having an edit button.

Hope my point was clear anyway. lol.
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Posted: Nov 10th 2010 8:37AM Pewpdaddy said

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One of things I liked from WoW was the token style raid drops. Kill X boss get N*Hunter marks N*Priest marks and so on. That worked pretty well, on top of the random loots of course. In terms of quest gear and crafted gear being better than raid loot. I would be ok if it was on par, but the raid loot needs to stand out. If only to show that you actually killed X boss. A title even would suffice if the game supported them.

Posted: Nov 10th 2010 3:01PM DarkWalker said

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I still find the tokens too random to my tastes. Never earned one of them in a few months of raiding. I would prefer a deterministic way to get gear - for example, having raid bosses give a guaranteed number of emblems/points/whatever but not drop any gear, and all raid-grade equipment being bought for emblems/points/whatever.

As for crafted gear, I would love if each crafting profession had one or two Best in Slot, Bind on Pickup pieces of crafted gear each raid tier, with required (also BoP) materials earned though raiding. Make the professions feel like they actually matter, while keeping raiding important. And avoiding the hassle of having BiS gear that can actually be sold; I still believe their existence it's one of the main reasons for players to buy gold.
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Posted: Nov 10th 2010 8:40AM Greyhame said

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I like a hybrid system where you can get the loot after getting enough of some currency and random loot dropping off bosses. It allows people to get some loot without needing to worry about having to have that one particular piece drop.

Posted: Nov 10th 2010 8:46AM Lobotomist said

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You realize its not actual random loot

Its pregenerated - set loot. You can know exactly what loot drops from every MOB.

Like
89% to drop item A
10% to drop item B
1% to drop item C


Random loot is when items are themselves generated randomly.


Posted: Nov 10th 2010 8:54AM aillas said

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I think most players call that a random drop system, as in, what drops is randomly selected from a table, not necessarily randomly generated. Everybody would hate a randomly generated item system, because the majority of items would be worthless: stats that don't make sense, items unusable for a class, etc.
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Posted: Nov 10th 2010 3:04PM DarkWalker said

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Random loot generation = Diablo & Diablo 2.

You could be stuck with a hard to get piece of equipment that would be really great, except for having the wrong properties for your class/build.
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Posted: Nov 10th 2010 8:59AM Ocho said

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I'm not the biggest fan of random loot (as I've been on the losing ends of those rolls a lot more often than average), and its actually turned me off from WoW (although WoW has fixed this to an extent with the badges/tokens/etc). Like the poster above me, how do you keep immersion when you have to kill the same guy over and over and over again?

Of course, random tables do have their purpose... if every mob dropped the same predictable thing over and over again, where is the excitement of it? Having randomness spices things up a bit, but if you need the low percentage randomness in order to proceed further in the game, thats where I find the problem.

Posted: Nov 10th 2010 9:03AM aillas said

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I think for a system like you describe, you'd have to play a "classless" game, with no restrictions on what equipment players can use. Asheron's Call is such a game, perhaps as close as it'll get to your ideal. And I remember a lot of "random" loot when I played.

But by and large I think players would hate actual randomly generated items. It is a enough of a grind to accumulate tokens or hope for the right boss drop... replacing that with random items? As in shields or heavy armor with spellcaster bonuses and wands or robes with fighter stats? Yeah, that would rate a big fat zero from the playerbase.

Posted: Nov 10th 2010 9:29AM Lobotomist said

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Yes but imagine what would this kind of system do for economy in a game.

Wonders!

Plus, every character would be totally different and unique.


And finally.

Diablo has real random generated loot.

Last I checked it was/is hugely popular
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Posted: Nov 10th 2010 3:17PM DarkWalker said

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@Lobotomist:

Given that, at least for WoW, most competitive gear is "Bind on Pickup", I don't think true random loot would have any significant effect on the economy. Unless the best gear become tradeable, which would make it possible to get the best gear by just farming (or buying) gold, which I don't think is a good proposition.

As for looking different, some kind of gear customization would fill the role way better. Look at the proposed gear recoloring system for Guild Wars 2, for example - no two players need to look the same, even if they have the exact same gear.

About Diablo 2, I would say it's very popular despite (and not because) of it's loot system. Besides, being able to farm the best items while playing solo does wonders to keep the random nature of drops bearable.
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Posted: Nov 10th 2010 9:12AM apoguita said

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Even in Guild Wars you get random loot, those greens that you need to farm and farm until you get what you need, or, you can go to an outpost and buy em there

Posted: Nov 10th 2010 10:14AM Arkanaloth said

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Thing is.. you don't have to farm green items. The vast majority of them have effects and benefits that can be duplicated 100% or very very close to it though the use of item mods. In fact most people I know in GW don't use green items because you can't mod them. They use blues, purples, or golds. IMO even Anet acknowledges that greens are a bit meh since you can't put a single green item in the hall of monuments, only Destroyer, Oppressor, and Tormented items, which are all golds.

I think the only reason to farm greens is if you're going for a very specific visual on an item which happens to have the benefits you want, but if you just want the benefits any mod-able item will be more than enough. So really what you want to farm are item mods, not greens, and most of those are pretty common to varying degrees (with a few exceptions like Vampiric and Zealous mods which seem to be a bit more rare)
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Posted: Nov 10th 2010 9:13AM Trippin said

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ok everyone chucking % at us, what is not random at the change the item you want does not drop? 20 times it doesn't and then drops 5 times in a row and you dont get it due to bad rolls? i do believe thats classified as random. yes 1% drop-rate means it will fall, but can you predict in advance it does or does not drop? only that you have a 1% change of it does.

i totaly hate it, it is totally a disregard of skills and more a mechanic to make sure you keep returning to certain area's just to make sure you have a small change to get the item.

Posted: Nov 10th 2010 9:20AM Irem said

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I dislike random drops and prefer a crafted/quested loot system. Most of the time it feels like there's a conflict between needing a certain level of gear to actually play and the desire for high-end gear to be rare and therefore a big deal. The complaints I heard in WoW against making epics more accessible mostly amounted to, "But now that anyone can get them, epics don't mean anything!" whereas the more casual players had been frustrated by the fact that you previously had to be a hardcore player just to get the gear necessary to go into the places where skill starts to be what sets people apart.

"Well, why not just give everyone access to the same level of gear?" people fumed, but really, why not? Guild Wars actually has a nice system that I was surprised by: everyone can get the gear that gives max stats with some work, but there are more interesting and complex armor skins that cost more in the way of effort and money. You can work toward being a badass in your awesome-looking prestige sets, without feeling gimped or getting shut out of groups just because you haven't gotten X item to drop. In PvE, at least, there's really no reason to keep gear that's nicer stat-wise scarce, but I think it's important that people who can invest more time and work get something to show for it.

Posted: Nov 10th 2010 3:24PM DarkWalker said

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For any game that strives to have really good PvP, gear parity is a must. Even Blizzard, which is really slow to change course, is recognizing it - WoW has dropped rating requirements for PvP gear (except for the very best weapons, which will have a fairly low rating).

Which is probably why Guild Wars, with it's strong emphasis on PvP, enables players to have a new max-level player in great gear at the drop of a hat, and provides upgrade options for gear that don't involve simply more powerful gear.
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Posted: Nov 10th 2010 9:57AM (Unverified) said

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The loot system has to be accomodating AND allow people to feel they are rewarded for their "work". Totally random loot aggravates people if they continually lose out on the rolls and a system of "collect your token and buy your gear" removes any sense of wonder from the game and turns it into a grindfest.

I would prefer to see something along these lines:

Boss killed, loot window pops up for each player.

You then choose from the following:

Tokens (for those who like to buy their gear)
Random Class-specific gear
Crafting items only available from "dungeons"
Extra cash
Totally random gear piece not "soul-bound" so it can be traded/sold

You then pick one and go on about your business. Everyone should be happy. Those that have gotten all they want from a particular instance in the form of gear still have incentive to go back for crafting materials, cash, etc.

Just a thought.

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