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Reader Comments (45)

Posted: Nov 9th 2010 3:17PM Deadalon said

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Its intresting that you should bring up a picture of WAR and talk about PVP balance.

WAR is a game that is unbalanced... not because the devs can't balance it... Its unbalanced because thats the sort of PVP that the game provides. IT feeds on unbalance - nothing else - never has.

It doesn't matter where you look in the game. From the faction player balance that has ruined most of the servers already - the individual abilites of characters. Not to mention the fact that right now ... as we speak they are offering a special pack that they call RVR pack - but should be called UNBALANCING EVEN MORE PACK.

SO... if you want to make sure you play unbalanced PVP - then join WAR. You probably wont have to wait long until you can buy more domination for 50 bucks extra !

Posted: Nov 9th 2010 6:15PM Joshua Przygocki said

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You're right... it IS unbalanced in one on one fights...

It is not, however, a one on one game. If you don't work together, you don't win.
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Posted: Nov 10th 2010 2:21AM hami83 said

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Compared to WoW I think Warhammer is lightyears ahead in PvP balance.
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Posted: Nov 9th 2010 3:18PM Pewpdaddy said

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I like the rules, they fit PvP well. I also like how you used a pic of WAR to bring up the balance concept. WAR is or at least was unless it's changed very drastically innately unbalanced. Not to say that balance is possible as you put it. But the classes if played by someone of similar skill should at least be able to keep up with one another. Not even close in WAR, not even close....

Posted: Nov 9th 2010 3:26PM hansh0tfirst said

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When I want balanced PvP, I load up Team Fortress 2… and hope my teammates aren't largely comprised of incompetent snipers and fail spies.

MMO PvP is for spoilsports, griefers, and lightweight wannabes who couldn't aim a targeting reticle if their life depended on it.

Posted: Nov 9th 2010 3:38PM Deadalon said

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Totally agree - MMos are filled with low skilled griefers that have to count on improved gear/lvl(RR) stats over others to beat them. This domination is usually brought on with either time played or extra money (like WAR is doing now).

WAR is the proof that PVPers dont want balance - They will proof it by buying the RVR pack so they can get more levels (RR) and gear (2 sets above all others) so they can beat on those ppl that already pay normal subs and are hoping for balanced PVP content). And the sad thing... This is what devs are counting on for extra money.

So.. WAR is no longer just a niche game - its also filled with griefers that are paying extra to beat on those that pay less. And... both those griefers and the devs dont want anything less !!
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Posted: Nov 9th 2010 4:07PM KvanCetre said

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What a blanket statement. I can pvp pretty well and have grown up with FPSs since the days of Wolfenstein 3D. Just because you're good at only one type of game doesn't mean the rest are bad.
Threre are PLENTY of spoilsports and griefers in every fps... Even TF2.
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Posted: Nov 9th 2010 4:54PM hansh0tfirst said

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@KvanCetre

You're absolutely right - there are plenty of spoilsports and griefers in fps games. The major difference however is I can hop servers/hosts with a simple mouse click, and not watch 200+ hours of investment in a character go right down the tubes.
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Posted: Nov 9th 2010 5:21PM KvanCetre said

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I'm not sure what you mean by losing hours of investment (outside of possibly Eve).

Using the obvious example of wow, if I lose to a ganker, it takes me usually less than a minute to respawn. With rare exception, I can escape then. If I choose to, I can play on a server where such ganks are impossible.
In arena combat, griefers are really tough to find. In battlegrounds, you can always leave or stick it out and get an entirely new group to play with next time.

I've played a few mmos and never found griefers to be an issue that costs me more than a few minutes.
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Posted: Nov 9th 2010 7:52PM (Unverified) said

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@ daedalon

What a rediculous point. By your logic anyone who buys an expansion pack is a griefer looking for a paid advantage. I firmly believe most of the people who play mmo's are looking for a handful of specific attributes in their game, two big ones are character progression and cool looking gear. This is the carrot and while they aren't the only reasons people are putting hours into these games they are major ones.

Don't misunderstand me, a large portion of the war community is a pretty whiny lot, but common sense implies that the experience you're looking for is the free trial. Capped gear and progression, unchanging and permanent.
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Posted: Nov 9th 2010 7:57PM DarkWalker said

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I would think the loss in invested time is regarding to World PvP.

If you level up a toon in Warsong-US, for example, as a Horde he will always have someone close to help with enemies, and dominating Wintergrasp is mostly assured. As Alliance, he will always be outnumbered so badly the outcome is predetermined, and actually winning in World PvP is a distant dream.

So, for anyone who was hoping for World PvP, it would represent either the loss of the time invested in the character, or else having to pay two subscription months worth for a realm/faction transfer.
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Posted: Nov 9th 2010 3:43PM Lateris said

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Question. If you use math such as the D 20 won't that balance the issues out?

Posted: Nov 9th 2010 6:29PM Greg W said

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Haha, no. That's just how you know when you get to roll double damage. =3
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Posted: Nov 9th 2010 7:28PM Lateris said

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LOL ty ty tyt- I always wondered this as I am learning
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Posted: Nov 9th 2010 3:45PM stealthrider said

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Look at SWG's forums. Play the game. Now tell me which classes are overpowered.

You can't, because there are none. SOE spent a lot of time and effort making sure the current incarnation of SWG is not the balance nightmare it once was. Every class can handily defeat every other class, needs every other class to survive, and fills its own niche. Smugglers can two- or three-shot every class, but need all of their debuffs and chance attacks to hit. Spies can pop out of stealth and insta-kill anyone, but need to use all of their cooldowns to do it, making them super vulnerable afterward. Light Jedi can absorb incredible amounts of damage, but need to fight wars of attrition to out-damage their opponents. There's complaining, but it's usually minor, ie Bounty hunters getting some more variety in their expertise.

Now look at the sadly dead MxO. After two years of imbalance, the game switched to a rock-paper-scissors style. Knife throwers had an edge against hackers, who had an edge against martial artists, who had an edge against gunmen, who had an you'd need at least one of all of the classes, and the edge against knife throwers. For a successful PvP team, the key to victory was in pairing your people against theirs. There was no complaining. The system worked.

The point is, PvP balance is for sure possible. It's not easy, and it takes a long term solution, but it's possible.

It just doesn't heal reputations.

Posted: Nov 10th 2010 4:24AM smg77 said

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SWG only seems balanced because there are so few people playing it.
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Posted: Nov 9th 2010 3:50PM (Unverified) said

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I always thought GW did a decent job of keeping pvp balanced.
I think part of that though is the fact that you can instantly re-roll whatever class you want as a pvp toon.

The other thing people I think cry about is class imbalance--- which is ok if you consider TEAM balance. Yes, maybe a healer can't take out x-dps class, but the healers is vital as a part of the team. (Something that has me very curious about rated bg's in wow--- has me even thinking of going back)

I'm a big pvp fan in the games I play(ed) and I think still the best thing for me was OLD school AV.... the games that lasted through the night and you go to bed and they are still going on. That was a case where balance was more often fair because the sides were huge, there were npc's, and other reasons.
They don't make em like that any more--- though i never liked the 2-3 hour que wait :)

Posted: Nov 9th 2010 4:10PM KvanCetre said

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I miss the old guild wars days... Back when it was a cross continent competition with h
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Posted: Nov 9th 2010 4:13PM KvanCetre said

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I miss the old guild wars days... Back when it was a cross continent competition with the original version of what is now heroes ascent(i could be wrong on the name, its been a while since I've played). The six team battles were intense and the guild vs guild was stressful. Sadly, it usually came down to flavor of the month teams...
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Posted: Nov 9th 2010 3:53PM (Unverified) said

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also, in all my pvp years, teamwork and tactics always seem to trump balance... or imbalance as the case may be.

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