| Mail |
You might also like: WoW Insider, Joystiq, and more

Reader Comments (13)

Posted: Oct 25th 2010 12:08PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I played a templar and I had 0 trouble getting a legion, getting constant DP runs when I was playing Aion. It's hard to be elite in Aion when gear is pure luck on drops and it doesn't take much skill to do half the stuff. When I played I preferred my group in at least 75% golds for DP because I did nothing less than A runs. That was all I bothered doing in Aion.

Posted: Oct 25th 2010 12:13PM Tom in VA said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
"I have played with, succeeded, and enjoyed a multitude of unorthodox, mismatched groups that are far from the ideal make-up. Conversely, I have seen where having the so-called perfect set-up means jack when the player isn't very capable."

This statement is SO true. In fact, it can be quite entertaining to run a dungeon with a "mismatched" group. I can recall running Razorfen Downs in WoW with an "all-squishy" group. It was a blast. Unfortunately, most players cannot think outside the Holy Trinity box, nowadays.

Guild Wars had an answer for group elitism, which is one of the reasons I loved GW so much.

Players in GW had options. I had a Monk/Ranger that I really liked, but since his was an unpopular (nonhealing) build, finding groups was well nigh impossible. My Mesmer/Necro had much the same experience.

In Guild Wars, however, this was NEVER a problem, since you could always find a friend or two (or even none, if no one you knew was online) and use heroes/henches and tackle just about anything.

Thus, my toons in GW were always -- ALWAYS -- able to find a group, even the unconventional ones.

Group elitism and the general aggravation of group-finding/joining are why I so seldom join groups or run dungeons any more in MMOs. Guild Wars offered a sweet workaround to this problem; sadly, most other MMOs do not.

Posted: Oct 28th 2010 2:51PM Luftwaffles said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
While I enjoy Guild Wars and the Hero system it's not an answer to group elitism. Rather than design grouping and instances to promote class variety and flexibility, they simply said "here is a bunch of AI that you can customize to your liking instead."

So you're still not grouping. Your playing with a bunch of 'pets' that can't sass you... some people still desire to group with living beings, and heroes don't address the issue.
Reply

Posted: Oct 25th 2010 1:32PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Follisimo so I'm assuming your one of these assholes by the way you said "I did nothing less than A runs." ........ I played Aion since CB on Vaizel and quit several weeks ago for this very reason.

Posted: Oct 25th 2010 2:33PM Serafin said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I completely agree.

Back when I was leveling my Templar (pre 1.9) I would always hear my friends and legion mates tell me that people avoided doing DP ranked runs with my class and instead let sins or glads tank. Eventually I got to 50 and proved them wrong by successfully doing S-rank runs with my static.

I wish more players were willing to experiment with group set ups because it really does leave people out who eventually drift away from the game.

Posted: Oct 25th 2010 5:25PM Warumono said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
totally agree with the elitism thing.
more than once i had to shout to my legion members to stop acting like that. But let's be true, more than once we got a falure group because we just picked up the wrong guy. Elitism usually start with non-expected builds and ego's, like a templat with 6k Hp saying let's go i'll tank Dp rank A boss, and dying within seconds.

Templar/cleric combo is usually looked for because even a f'ked up templar at lvl 55 have at least 9k hp, and unless the cleric is a retarded, he have the best heals in the game. At the same time u'll see chanters with dps build and glads with barely 8k hp at lvl 55, no offense they're dps, that's what they're supposed to be, but if u can't burn out mobs before they even start casting, i'm sorry, but that is not happening, not letting a 8k hp glad tank.

i do play a Templar and a Chanter high lvl, (almost 55 and the other 54), and even if we have tanked a bunch of dg's with a sin, these are usually fortress instances (that a sorc have tanked already on my legion) or minnor ones like theo labs. these instances are hardly a sweat, more likely u don't even need a full group to do it.

I've also seen sins tanking DP bonus boss, but let's remember that is a well geared sin, with a Clerci and chanter and a hell of equipments.

So i agree that the only geared rule is stupid, but i would always say u better keep the plate/cleric thing.

and remember class are made to do one thing, ppl usually wreck that for a crit templar, or a evasion glad (o.o ! plz don't), but all, in all, a tanker with 10k + hp is always a good tanker, so lets attend to it.

and about the not the same class rule, lets remember that aion is a hell of a grind, and u see gold drops 1/30 runs, so if u take 2 of the same class that would half the chances at that gold, and adding the 'only geared players ' thing, that's not very smart. U're better grinding some money than having a double in you dg pt.

i've stoped playing for a while due to personal problems like unsettling work hours, but still i do have a pretty decent gear right now, and i can say that i've tanked dp on my first days with green breastplate from SR, far in the beggining of the servers, so what i'm trying to say is, most of 'u need a chanter for this, o a well geared tanker for that' are myths, but that's not an excuse to say that strange party set ups aren't harder to play than the standard ones.

nowadays as the game gets older, people get to believe in the myths other players tell them, like 'that boss is insane, don't try it' or 'u need a cleric AND chanter here', and ppl will keep believing because they'e not brave enought to try.


So good article here, the 'need geared players' is stupi as much as the 'this set up will never kill that thing', but ppl shall remember that some classes are better to play some roles, and that's not supposed to be forgot.

Posted: Oct 25th 2010 5:40PM Graill440 said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
First impressions are a big thing with me and i relegate them to in person judegments. One caveat, i do give MMO's some leeway when it comes to making a judgement call as to whether your human or not. Take Aion, i was curious as to a few posts on their forums a year or so back, really abusive posts to some pve folks, so i look up the real life photos section and find the pics of these posters.

The name with the photo and the post makes total sense, you see these same people ingame and again, it makes sense when you see the trade or ay channel chat. You need transparency in these games, if not, folks will continue to act as they do without fear.

Everyone saw how many millions did not want accountability in wow when they were going to be held to the fire for their actions, says something about the community as a whole, doesnt it?

Posted: Oct 25th 2010 7:54PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
The mechanics in many MMOs reward repetition, and punish failure severely. In Aion, you're often worried about bringing along a player who might get you wiped, waste your kinah, put you on an 18 lockdown for an instance, or roll on that 5% drop rate gear you really need. Of course you're going to err heavily on the side of caution and wait for somebody who seems less risky, even if it means waiting two hours to get a group! Nobody wants to waste a day in Dark Poeta fighting mobs for two consecutive hours only to wipe on the final boss and get nothing but a soul heal bill.

When MMOs reward players for taking risks and doing new things or inviting along new players, then players will respond by taking risks and doing new things. BOTS had a system where drop rates increased exponentially with more players, so you always wanted to invite anyone you could find, regardless of skill. Maple Story gave a +XP bonus to a group, which made group grinding more efficient even when you discount how two players can fight that much more effectively. WoW uses a dungeon finder to link up players automatically, and even gave them special pets to encourage playing with new people.

I feel that MMO communities will always grow to resemble the mechanics of the game. If you have an elitist community, it's almost certainly because you've constructed a game that rewards elitism! If you don't like it, you need to figure out why it happened and try to change it.

Posted: Oct 25th 2010 8:24PM Maraq said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Cant find much to disagree with re the article above. I considered myself a fairly flexible gladiator player, open to orders and established tactics, and able to adapt and control my aoe aggro (the main hate of any non glads).

Problem isn't just with the players elitism though, so its unfair to focus on them alone. Aion is a game where the worst aspects of player psychology are continually fuelled by the games design. Failure in the game is punished, expensively and brutally. Not only does it cost you in game money, and lots of it, when you die, but you also permanently lose xp.

Its not just elitism that keeps new players out of established groups, its the fear of unknown variables in what would otherwise be a tight ship where everyone knows each others ability. Unknown variables are not good for player confidence in difficult missions where failure will result in millions of kinahs worth of soul debt, and another wasted couple of hours striving for rng drops from the final boss. bad enough to not get the reward for that risk and effort, but to add injury to insult with debt and lost xp too? Nah...

Yes it is just a game, but they make games challenging for a reason. Cos the devs know that human psychology will get caught up in the challenge and forget "its just a game" (which it obviously still is). Yes, it is just a game, but the effort and skill is real enough, and players, just people, dont like to waste their time striving for something thats expensive to fail at.

Coupled with the "RNG" of boss drops and procs (*screams like a guurl*), high death penalties and generally ridiculous high cost of living in Aion, and the resultant amped up tension of the mission itself, its no wonder that even before the mission has started players are treating all strangers as potential fly's in the ointment.

I left Aion specifically because of all the above reasons, cos the community often is its own worst enemy, but also because the devs designed a game that encourages all the aspects that most good players abhor. Players have too much to lose, and the game is categorically not a "chill" game.

That this article is about Aion is no surprise.

Posted: Oct 25th 2010 8:35PM Maraq said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
PS - apologies for missing this out...

Most interesting team combos? for me the most fun was doubling up with another gladiator, and being told we were "weapons free" with our aoe. we used our combined aoe to hold mob aggro while cleric and chanter spammed the heals. we still had to work "like diggedy" to hold the mobs, but it was a blast being able to let rip over and over with aoe's :)

Posted: Oct 26th 2010 1:21AM real65rcncom said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
lol @ AION.. funny times.

"Group lf Spritmaster for Dredgion... must be geared."

"Hi, I'm geared. Need a SM?"

"Hmm.. yeah you look ok. You have Fear Shriek?"

"No, I'm pet specced for optimal dps damage."

"Sorry.. getting static.. can't see what you're sending anymore."


"S rank Dark Poeta Run lf Templar.. please send PM!"

30 mins later you respond.

"Hi, Templar here, I'll come."

"Hold on... (checks your gear in profile)..."

"Sorry, you've got two blue pieces. Get more gold geared and we'll take you."

"But, if I come, theres a chance I can get gold geared. How can I get gold geared if I can't get a DP run?"

"Sorry, I think I'm getting lag. Can't see what you're typing Templar.. Take care!"

Aion in a nutshell.

Posted: Oct 26th 2010 11:27AM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
wouild anyone be able to sent me a trial invite for this game plese

Posted: Oct 27th 2010 12:05PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
The best example of self-perceived "elitism" I have ever encountered in this game was just last week.

I was in a PUG, all was going well, until the assassin in the group decided to complain over the fact that the rest of us, were bringing down the mobs (this after he used his version of Aether's Hold) and not letting him use the skill ( Crashing Wind Strike, I believe) he has to bring down the mob and hand out damage.

No. Seriously. This actually happened.

It's not like everyone in the group played together for ages, or that anyone was in vent discussing skills...no one could possibly guess that he'd use that skill at that specific time and stop themselves from using their own skills in time.

It was just so moronic. The mobs were getting killed, all was going well...why complain about something so stupid?

The assassin left the group soon after, along with the cleric (both from the same legion), who left the rest of us (that managed to finish the quests without dying or needing heals) a splendid line..."You don't put down what you don't put up!Noobs!".

Hahahaha...it was...amazing.


Featured Stories

Engadget

Engadget

Joystiq

Joystiq

WoW Insider

WoW

TUAW

TUAW