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Reader Comments (24)

Posted: Oct 23rd 2010 12:48PM archipelagos said

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"If you're fond of the game, play it."

Agreed. I don't need something to be a critical darling, or a community favourite, to enjoy it. One of my favourite albums is generally regarded as abysmal by almost everyone but it still appeals to me.

Posted: Oct 23rd 2010 12:56PM Mevan said

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Couldn't agree with you any more. Very well said. FFXIV is a really fun game. I play the ever loving crap out of it daily. I recognize its flaws but for every complaint I've had SE has promised a fix for it by the years end. I hope this game sticks around because I won't be done playing it anytime soon.

Posted: Oct 23rd 2010 1:16PM Transientmind said

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Yeah, and they were going to fix the market wards in the last patch. Look how well that worked. I can't imagine what they'll do to the UI.

You know, I have a bridge for sale that you might be interested in...
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Posted: Oct 23rd 2010 2:23PM Mevan said

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They said the Market Ward update was the first step. In Nov~Dec version updates they are adding a search function that will show you who is carrying the item you're looking for and while you're in the Ward that contains the item it will show a marker next to the retainers that have that item.

What kind of bridge are we talking here? Beam, Truss, Arch, Suspension, Cable-Stayed or Cantilever?
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Posted: Oct 23rd 2010 1:18PM (Unverified) said

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I agree with Jesse above; however, if they dont fix the problems by years end i cannot promise that the sub will hang on... Either SE produces a product that doesnt make me feel like im at work, piling through tedious menu's and randomly seeming glitches, or they give me until they unscrew it free-of-charge.

Posted: Oct 23rd 2010 1:33PM Solp said

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The Mog Log: Ignoring critique since Ep.1.

Posted: Oct 23rd 2010 5:36PM Dril said

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I thought ignoring bad things was an integral part of Massively policy.
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Posted: Oct 23rd 2010 2:01PM (Unverified) said

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Submarine. So apt. When submerged, nothing gets in and nothing gets out.

Posted: Oct 23rd 2010 2:20PM Bhagpuss said

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For a website predicated on attracting readers with a mix of features, news and and reviews of games to advise players to just play games and not read about them and discuss them seems a tad ill-judged.

If we all took your advice, then where would you be?

Posted: Oct 23rd 2010 2:31PM Monkey D Luffy said

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"For all that FFXI's open world has its advantages, there is a reason MMO design has evolved away from it."

Devolved not Evolved. There is no excuse for making a MMO with tiny little areas., t's supposed to be a world after all.

Tired of stupid people thinking that MMO's should be more like cheap single player RPG's where you walk down a single path the whole game.


Don't get how someone who knows nothing about how MMO's should be is talking about how the dumbing down of them is a good thing.

Massively needs better writers.

Posted: Oct 23rd 2010 2:37PM Controlled Chaos said

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I really have to admit, while I enjoy the usual columns, this one just strikes me as SE worship. True, you said that the game has flaws, it's good to talk about them, etc, but seriously? Explain why the flaws don't matter to you that much?

You know how flaws get fixed? You complain about them. Loudly. Which is exactly what most of the players are doing now. You can claim that XIV is awesome and what not, that people should stop complaining, but, you know, if it weren't for those complaining people, all that stuff that you actually don't like about the game? Yeah, those won't get fixed.

People need to stop thinking that Square Enix can do no wrong with the Final Fantasy franchise. Hell, I blame those very people who, during the Beta, were so busy saying everything was awesome than to actually figure out the problems so that SE could actually get the game reasonably solid for launch. Instead, they release this, then apparently are surprised when half the people who tried it said it was a pile of crap. Not to say SE isn't to blame here too, but like all companies, they need feedback in order to figure out the problem.

All in all, fanboyism does nothing but just create artificial problems for player and developer alike. Complain to your hearts content. Things get fixed faster that way.

Posted: Oct 23rd 2010 6:39PM Transientmind said

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The 1-up review recently describe the user interface (and to my mind, a great deal of the entire gaming experience) in the most elegant, concise and accurate way I've yet seen: "Maliciously incompetent."

It feels like there is malice here, on SE's part. An insultingly cynical callousness, a calculated underestimation of the PC (and MMO) audience.

CC: You are absolutely right. The louder, messier, more unpleasant the reaction, the better. The insidious reptile-brains of the non-gamer corporates who are directly responsible for this mutant still-birth of a game respond only to one thing.

APB was not enough. The corporate marionetteers can lie to themselves about RTW's mismanagement, about the game trying something without a precedent, about mixed message marketing. FFXIV can't hide behind these weak excuses. It's a AAA title produced by a well-established, famous developer producing a sequel to a 'successful' title, in a genre with proven acceptance and precedents. It SHOULD have been a slam-dunk, a no-brainer.

I hope not only SE, but the rest of the industry is taking a very good, long, hard look at why the market and the community has responded this way.

To the fanboy apologists: Listen to yourselves. You sound exactly like the beaten wives I've encountered, crying plaintively, "Yes, but you just don't know him the way I do! It's not his fault! He's going to get help... And in the meantime I just need to be more careful, watch what I do..." Wake up. You are victims of abuse and you need to stop defending the object of your affection if you want to really see it improve.
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Posted: Oct 23rd 2010 3:43PM (Unverified) said

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Good lawd... the venom some of you people have for XIV/Eliot.. wtf?

I rarely even skim over game reviews, they just seem like glorified forum posters that happened to use spell-check for once, but it's hard to imagine how XIV in it's current state could get a "good" review.

The odd disconnect to me is that so much of the loudest criticism/hate missed the mark on what is really wrong/broke with the game. Seems like a month or so ago the forums were all in a rage about the general style of SE's approach and the fact that it's not quite "normal" or "western", like "NO PVP = DOOOOOM" and so forth.

After playing the game for about 6 weeks between beta and live, the actual problem is that the game is no where near "finished" enough to launch, major game systems are either missing or super funked up, and the real kicker is that it runs like shit, even on super computers. It's sooo vanguard...

I know there are some hate spewers that have patted themselves on the back about the extra 30days, claiming internet victory and the pure righteousness of their holy hatred saving the internet from every evil MMO day after day, but I think much of it has missed the mark and not really done anyone any good.

I've sent in more bug reports to XIV then I have for any other game, and many of the ones I've sent in have already been dealt with, at least in part. The list of things they are supposedly working on hits on just about everything, and at least we know they are listening and working on it. The extra 30days was a big decision, gotta give them credit on that, I'm not sure very many other companies would have had the chocobonuts to do that.

My big long-term concern is that they have this obvious PS3 foundation.... can they really turn this into a PC game? even in a years time? I don't know...

Posted: Oct 25th 2010 10:21AM Orekri said

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I have to agree completely with this. I really enjoy FFXIV, lets just get that right out there so you can let your rage subside as you read, but I honestly just told a friend of mine to wait a few months to give it a shot. Why? because it is completely unfinished. They should have waited for a 2011 launch and smoothed over the UI and put in those "new" leves they were developing. Add in NM's, and what was that other thing? Oh...right...MARKET WARDS....FIX EM!!!!

That being said, I have every intention of staying around for a while because I really am enjoying myself. And as Eliot said, I can forgive the faults because I enjoy more than I am annoyed, but I also am not lying to myself and saying those faults don't exist.

Now is a time when people need to channel any negative feelings about the game into something constructive. There are tons of flaws, but SE is a huge company and if nothing else, they have the tools to fix this. Whether they do or don't is entirely in their court.

Until then comments should be directed to places where they can be useful. Simply calling everyone who does enjoy it a "fanboi" and repeating constantly that we would eat any garbage SE sells doesn't help anything. Either help with the improvements or go play something else. Seriously, you aren't helping nearly as much as you think you are just by dogging on people that are enjoying themselves. We aren't your enemies. We didn't make the game, and we didn't release it in its unfinished state. We just enjoy it.

I personally see a lot of potential in the game and am having fun even in its unfinished state, but I am getting tired of people asking me if I read the reviews or telling me stories about how their friend played the OB and said it sucked, like it is news to me that a lot of people don't like it. Honestly even if it was released finished, it would be very much like FFXI in that it just isn't for everybody. Help the people that it suits get it to a point where it feels polished and refined so we can enjoy our game.
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Posted: Oct 23rd 2010 5:06PM Cendres said

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I can now alt-tab out of windowed mode.

A simple fix amongst others that will just keep happening until the game is just as functional, complete as any other and in fact may surpass some. That's why fans stick around, we all know they are problems and it's because they don't matter that we play, we play because this is our game and we like it despite the issues with faith they will get resolved.

And it is not blind faith as the same dev team have proven themselves before. The problem is they launched the same way they did before and people looking from the outside in think they have not learned anything. They have not learned how to approach things differently no, but what they are doing is different, a mix of retro and progressive.

I'm the first to complain SE is too set in their ways and too closed minded about certain things, this game still has all the stuff I yearn in other games.

I love critique, but in the gaming world I only see it rarely in little known online magazines or personal blogs. Big sites only spew hype and/or rage. I can't respect that or give it any credit.

Posted: Oct 23rd 2010 5:07PM Cendres said

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** it's NOT because they don't matter that we play....
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Posted: Oct 23rd 2010 5:10PM Cendres said

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I don't consider Massively a BIG site, it's a medium gaming site which presents their articles clearly; as news or opinion pieces and are up front about it. That's why I'm still here even though the audience makes me want to quit reading too often. :P
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Posted: Oct 23rd 2010 5:53PM Solp said

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The point is that the game shouldn't need fixes to be functional, that's the point of development.

Also, if the commenters make you want to stop reading, don't read/post comments? Just a suggestion. Massively has some of the most logical and honest folk commenting that I've seen.
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Posted: Oct 24th 2010 2:25AM Cendres said

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In an MMO it's on going development.
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Posted: Oct 24th 2010 3:38AM Ekphrasis said

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"In an MMO it's on going development."

In fairness, it's attitudes like that that have given rise to publishers releasing unpolished games that lack content and are extremely buggy. Champions Online for example, had barely enough content (even if you ran every single mission) to get you to the level cap. Instead of putting more effort into launching a more polished game to compete with games that are already live, developers and publishers have taken the opposite approach, hurriedly releasing inadequate games.

I agree that FFXIV will more than likely get better, but it shouldn't have to - it should be better right now - and it's as simple as that.

At present, what I see is:

* A visually stunning game (that runs poorly on the newest hardware) with a clever class system and as much of a focus on crafting as fighting classes. To me, they've almost nailed some of these things.

* Time limited daily missions with very short story progression quests every ~5 class levels (which take longer and longer to get to due to the levelling curve). It's a Final Fantasy game - where on earth is the consistent and engaging storyline?

* A poorly disguised time sink. I know an MMO is supposed to keep you coming back, but everything in FFXIV just takes far too long to accomplish. I don't feel like I can log in if I have 1/2 hour and really accomplish anything substantial. SE tells me that the game is meant to be played over the course of years (which is fine, up to a point) but I play games to take a break from reality and enjoy myself, not create a second life.

* Lag lag lag lag lag lag lag - even with people deserting this game in droves, the lag is still awful. I generally prefer solo play, but I teamed up with someone for the first time last night. As soon as one of us walked into a (not very) congested area, his avatar would disappear entirely and rarely reappear (and when it did, he was not targetable and his name would not show up).

* Basic quality of life features are missing like not being able to see my team mates on the large map, not being able to invite them until I was standing right in front of them - coupled with what I see as severe limits for the number of characters you can type in a message (why should I have to abbreviate 'you' to 'u' etc. so what I'm saying might fit on one line?).

* I disliked FFXIV in the open beta, until I tried to play it with a controller and found it much more enjoyable - it's predominantly designed for the PS3 after all. The performance is woeful on one of the most powerful gaming notebooks available at the moment, so I dropped the graphical settings to compensate and have a more fluid experience. In game help and standard features are missing so I find myself browsing the web to figure out what to do or doing without... and I wonder... at what point should I stop making concessions to try and enjoy this game as it is, because SE wanted to hold true to their design vision instead designing an intuitive, engaging and FUN game?

In short, if everything had been polished to the degree that the visuals and class system were, and they'd taken real community feedback into account during development - then this would be an absolutely amazing game right now, instead of in (maybe) 6 months.
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