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Reader Comments (147)

Posted: Oct 19th 2010 3:32PM Greyhame said

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I feel mostly the same way. Nothing released so far has made me want to get it. More story? Meh. Voice acting? Meh. Gameplay? Sounds pretty much like every other MMO out there so far, so that's not a draw. Star Wars? Lost interest in that about the same time the first prequel was released.

That said, I'm not going to call it a failure or bad at this point. It's just not done anything to excite me at this point. Ultimately I'll probably end up trying it when the free trials come around, but until then unless they release something that makes me go "Wow, that sounds awesome!" the chances of me getting on release are 0.

Posted: Oct 19th 2010 3:32PM Space Cobra said

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I agree with most of your article, if not all.

While the Voice Over stories are neat, many fail to realize a good percentage of MMO players like their sand-boxes and RP and will still fill this need, at least in their own head, even if we are "on-rails".

And those that care about PvP? Well, they may appreciate the story, but the gameplay is the thing and that is true for ALL players.

While I eagerly await playing a Bounty Hunter or Smuggler, I am cautious about SW:ToR, especially given my years of experience. Like many, I will play the first month, then decide afterwards, like many, even those who like it now will, I think, do the same ultimately.

Posted: Oct 19th 2010 3:33PM (Unverified) said

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I have to say that I was one of those fanboys sucked into the hype machine until recently. Then things started to happen that have me very worried.

First, I read that EA louse blog that mentioned TOR as being terrible, which made my stomach turn. Then a friend I have in the industry told me the same thing. Granted, both are questionable secondhand accounts, but they planted the seed.

Then I started to more critically look at what Bioware's released. Small snippets of gameplay interspersed between lots of fodder and backstory. Also, they've released about half of their timeline stories so far, and this game is (if the current estimate holds) less than six months from release. Only have of their back content more than 75% of the way through development? Not encouraging.

So basically, I've come down off the hype train and what was once unbridled optimism for TOR has been replaced with fear and a hope that this game won't disappoint me like so many others have.

Posted: Oct 19th 2010 3:33PM Space Cobra said

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I agree with most of your article, if not all.

While the Voice Over stories are neat, many fail to realize a good percentage of MMO players like their sand-boxes and RP and will still fill this need, at least in their own head, even if we are "on-rails".

And those that care about PvP? Well, they may appreciate the story, but the gameplay is the thing and that is true for ALL players.

While I eagerly await playing a Bounty Hunter or Smuggler, I am cautious about SW:ToR, especially given my years of experience. Like many, I will play the first month, then decide afterwards, like many, even those who like it now will, I think, do the same ultimately.

Posted: Oct 28th 2010 2:02PM StClair said

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@Tempes:

See my comments over on the CO thread for why I prefer sub to micropayments.

I bet you'd probably also prefer to only pay for your local fire department when your house was actually on fire. Can you BEGIN to imagine how much they'd charge you then, when you can't say no?
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Posted: Oct 19th 2010 3:39PM pcgneurotic said

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I'm in about 90% agreement with you there Jef, although I did enjoy the prequels more than most people it seems. My problem with TOR is something you hinted at (over-extension of the universe) and mentioned directly (KOTOR being an awesome game but not really enough to spin a whole mmog from). As a fan (first-generation Star Wars kid; I was 4 when I saw it on release back in'77), my interest in the universe on a hardcore level petered out around the end of the eighties with West End Games' PnP RPG; the whole 'Extended Universe' concept really turns me off tbh. But again, as you say, there will be few people not trying it out at launch and hoping to find magic again.

Posted: Oct 19th 2010 3:41PM Matix said

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"Can BioWare rekindle that fire? Do I even want it to?"

Had to re-read the article to even tie it back to the main point.

I can't argue that MMOs tend to lose their way and make an experience cheap with repetitive, time-tested game mechanics.

This is especially true when it's from an existing franchise. After over half a decade, for example, World of Warcraft might actually deliver on the WARcraft feeling of my beloved RTS franchise when Cataclysm hits, but I won't hold my breath.

To cut off my own soap-box rant before I start it, however--and not to overly mix franchises--if you're looking for a Matrix-style immersion into a universe you love, we have no real choice but to wait on the invention of a holodeck. Otherwise, we are at the whims of the franchise's creator and our fellow-fans.

One other thing:

If you look at my comment (#8) in the the "The Daily Grind: Tired of TOR?" (April 24th) the only castigation you got from me was the fact that you were part of the very hype problem you were claiming to take issue with. And, in fairness, what was this article if not trepidation over SWTOR? Granted, it's a soapbox and you made some keen observations. However, I leave my nails and 2X4's at home. My initial point stands as this is yet another non-news article making hoopla over a situation generated by a game that's not even released yet. If a Roman Execution occurred over it, that has to be left to some strange Massively after-hours activity, not yours truly.

Posted: Oct 19th 2010 3:44PM dudes said

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I find your lack of faith disturbing. The power to destroy a planet is insignificant oh what the hell my enthusiasm even to quote has gone. Hurry the *beep* up, Bioware!

Posted: Oct 19th 2010 3:45PM Thrishmal said

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I have many of the same qualms about TOR.

So many people are chomping at the bit to play the game with so little information being released, I just don't see how it can live up to the expectations of the fans.

The game will most likely survive and do fairly well unless they have some game breaking bugs they never address, but I am not sure if it will ever capture a true Star Wars feel, instead having a more Clone Wars feel to it.

I don't have a crystal ball to see how things will turn out, so I won't damn the game. All I can do is voice my fears and hope for the best. If it turns out well, we all end up as winners :-)

Posted: Oct 19th 2010 3:54PM Verus said

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I was excited for Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, Aion and Star Trek Online and they all turned out to be more or less junk. Does that mean I should not get excited for another mmo because of that ?

We have an mmo made by perhaps the most respected names in the gaming business restoring an ip to it´s glorious roots and we are not to get excited ?

Yes it might all turn out to be complete crap but before we are or are not disapointed I would like to feel excited for this game. Or should we just take for granted all mmo games from now on will only be crap ?

Also the hype does not come from Bioware. They barely put anything on their website and are not even to all the gaming conventions. While stuff like Warhammer, AoC and Aion was all over the net. The hype comes from the millions of fans Bioware have. The same way the tiny bit of news from Blizzard have their fans going apeshit..

Posted: Oct 19th 2010 3:54PM Damn Dirty Ape said

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This game is going to sell an assload of copies based solely on the IP name and the Bioware rep alone. The big question is, will there be content enough to keep people subscribing.

Personally I think it's going to be a fun polished MMO. It will be similar to WoW in space (which, despite what people say on blogs like this, is what a lot of people actually WANT) and have some great storytelling and voiceover work.

My thing is, once I've played through a few character's storyline (say one republic and one sith character), will there be anything left to keep me around? Sure, I loved the Mass Effect games, but I could easily beat both of them in a few weeks. Bioware is going to have to come up with something that keeps people playing for MONTHS for TOR to be a hit.

Posted: Oct 19th 2010 3:54PM (Unverified) said

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There could be strong negatives id SWTOR and a few other mainstream subscription MMOs launch and fail to meet the percieved success levels as obtained by WoW.

To many hyped mainstream MMOs have "likely" not been as successful as desired by corporations and clearly not reached WoW levels.

Given F2P MMOs are launching constantly and they "seem" to be reaching their targets and delivering.


More subscription MMOs under-delivering could result in many mainstream developers walking away from that segment of the genre. Which would leave mostly indie or small house developers for sub MMOs. Which of course would practically damage the genre segment.

Posted: Oct 19th 2010 3:54PM Jef Reahard said

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It's not really the definition of insanity. I just don't find $15 a month to be much money for unlimited entertainment, and I like to know that I have access to the entire game for a flat rate.

That doesn't work for some people, hence the F2P movement, which is fine. Not really what the piece was about though, tbh.

Incidentally, sorry for the comment shenanigans. Several of you have double-posted when I think it was lag on our end at fault.

Posted: Oct 19th 2010 4:02PM (Unverified) said

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I agree. There's a lot of froth and the substance I do see seems black and sticky. I am not at all pleased with some of the design choices (space). Basically i've come to the conclusion that this could be a shining achievement in RPG, I don't think that the MMO potential is as high. That said the MMO potential of certain other highly successful games which i shall not name i find pretty low as well.

Posted: Oct 21st 2010 8:48AM (Unverified) said

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I may not agree with your viewpoint, as I am one of the frothing, frenzied, fanboys waiting anxiously for this game. But I have noticed a current trend, especially on the SWTOR forums, of shouting "DOOM" and saying how this game is going to fail. You are not alone.

I think trying to keep a healthy anticipation, without hoping too much, will help align our expectations with what we will actually receive from TOR.

Posted: Oct 19th 2010 4:00PM Super Nerd said

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"BioWare can talk about story until it's bluer in the face than Aayla Secura, but the reality is that many MMO gamers don't give a bantha poodoo about the loftily labeled "fourth pillar.""

I disagree completely. I'm an MMO gamer at heart. That's where I find most of my enjoyment, and rarely venture to other genres. However, some of my favorite non-MMO games are games like Mass Effect, or Dragon Age. Why? Because of their story.

I don't think it's that most people don't care about story, I simply think that story isn't given as much attention in most MMO's. Sure it's there. Sure it's written out, but we all know how that works out. Either you ARE a person that likes story enough to read the quest text, or you just don't want to deal with reading a book in your video game.

I mean think of it this way, single player games are driven mainly by story. If you had to read every bit of text that is normally spoken, you likely wouldn't have fun with that game.

Also, on the whole note of Starwars nowadays being worse than it was back in the "good ol' days", I agree. However, Bioware has made Star Wars games before (KOTOR). And I think most people would agree that KOTOR is one of the better Star Wars games.

Posted: Oct 19th 2010 4:17PM Jef Reahard said

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I see your point, and I enjoy stories too, but devs are limited by time and budget. Players aren't, which is why player-generated content (and tools) will always be preferable in my book.
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Posted: Oct 19th 2010 4:48PM Brianna Royce said

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Tempes, quite a few subscription games have excellent player-generated content -- Star Wars Galaxies and City of Heroes being at the top of the list for the Chronicles and Architect systems, respectively. And those are just formal systems -- they don't speak at all to the amazing player-generated content that goes on outside of structured systems.

The subscription has absolutely nothing to do with it, except in that you could probably make a strong case that subscription sandboxes give people a very compelling reason to invest that kind of effort and time into the game to get their money's worth out of it.

-Bree
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Posted: Oct 19th 2010 4:04PM (Unverified) said

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"It's not really the definition of insanity. I just don't find $15 a month to be much money for unlimited entertainment, and I like to know that I have access to the entire game for a flat rate."

Thing is a lot of casual players, like me, simply don't make use of unlimited play time.

Subscription really only make financial sense if you spend a lot of time in game.

If you are going to have large gaps in a month of not playing but a few hours, then likely cash stores in F2P models can result in a cheaper fit.

Of course those who "use" the game alot may end up spending more in a cash shop game than in a subscription game.

I know $15 a month isn't alot, but why waste money if you aren't playing that much?

I suspect non-sub games would prove a much, much better fit for the casual gamers who seem to be a large chunk of the MMO market. While subs remain best for those who put a lot of time into the game.


Posted: Oct 19th 2010 4:05PM lizardbones said

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People are hyped because they are desperate. All Bioware has to do is have SW:ToR functional out of the gate, all the way to max level with something to do once you get there, and they've beaten nearly every single MMO released in the last few years.

The Hope Cinematic is indeed better than the 6 hours of prequel garbage.

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