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Reader Comments (16)

Posted: Oct 14th 2010 3:31PM Anatidae said

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I am a fan of user generated content in MMOs, but I would MUCH rather see such content created in a sandbox style.

Honestly, I don't care what person, developer or customer, creates a quest/mission/task that follows the same dull idea of "kill X baddies in map" - it is still dull.

I'll flip over to CoX. Rarely have I gone on user missions that felt really cool. Mostly they either just felt like every other CoX misson or they were designed to grind the maximum XP possible per minute.


What I would MUCH rather see is a toolset where player can build space stations, create remote governments, defend their territory, etc... Oh wait. Now I am talking about EVE. But I guess, even with EVE's faults, that is a much better example where the supporting systems that make up the game play is what creates "user content". And even in EVE's case I think there could be more variety in the types of meta-play to allow for even further user generated content (through cause and effect), but I think that is where CCP is heading slowly.


I guess I am saying it is a nice idea in theory, but I don't feel Cryptic is going to pull off anything great here and it will just offer a lot more of the same.

On the bright side, players will be able to "architect" maximum grind maps for the fastest leveling possible. And it is always interesting to race to the level cap of a MMO with no end-game...right?

Posted: Oct 14th 2010 4:55PM Ayenn said

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This is what I have been sayin on the forums for over a year now. However, idiots are louder than the wise. Hopefully after this CoH formulaic crap is out and proven to be almost a useless form of UGC they will get to making STO into the sandbox it needs to be.

I will say it will be considerably easier to do the formulaic UGC than it will be to do sandbox features. By doing this thing first it leaves the end open for sandbox feature development, which they will need to get it right.
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Posted: Oct 14th 2010 3:40PM Controlled Chaos said

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Man, I was about to say some things, but I think Brian! up there said most of it. I think it's a noble goal and what not, but a duck is still a duck, no matter how you try and dress it up. User generated content can only go so far when you're stuck with the same types of missions that, frankly, get really long in the tooth very quickly. There's only so many times you can travel from system to system, killing things, before you just get bored.

Not to mention, I actually feel a little bad for the really hardcore Star Trek fans. When you open the thing to user generated content...well, let's just say that most people aren't exactly going to be sticking to the canon that they really seem to want. It might extend the game's usability for a while, but I can't see it being everyone's favorite thing, by far.

Either way, good luck to the players when this comes out. Hope it keeps the interest up, at least.

Posted: Oct 14th 2010 4:08PM Graill440 said

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"Dubbed the Genesis project (do I really have to explain that one?)"

Indeed you do not, since however they used unstable proto matter in the development matrix the entire project will self destruct......this also requires no explanation. (grin)

Posted: Oct 14th 2010 4:49PM pcgneurotic said

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You know, it would be certainly be a shame if 'Kill 10 Klingons' was the only kind of quest we could make - but that's assuming 'Kill 10 X' will be the only type of objective they provide for us to use. Which I highly doubt. I believe we'll be seeing many more of the 'Interview 10 Tribbles and then answer 5 questions about what they said' type quests, which is, you know, fine with me. Anything that doesn't involve blowing shit up is a brilliant alternative.

Posted: Oct 14th 2010 5:01PM Ayenn said

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As far as the bit about Cataclysm is concerned... WoW and STO are two different games with two totally dissimilar core design concepts. The only clash or cross-conflict of interest there will probably be is when the habitual doom sayers get dizzy trying to decide which one to doom on.

Do you apple and oranges much, Ryan? Controversy where there is no controversy is not controversial. Sorry.

Posted: Oct 14th 2010 5:04PM Skyydragonn said

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Didn't Cryptic try this with City of heroes as well...the architect toolset it was called if I remember right, and while it was fun for those who enjoyed building mission content, it was ultimately of little help to City of heroes. Which was later sold (or bought) by its current developer?

Posted: Oct 14th 2010 6:33PM Sam not Spam said

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Cryptic had sold their stake in City of Heroes to NCSoft long before the Mission Architect system was ever brought up. They had nothing to do with it.

I do hope, however, that Cryptic has watched the ups and downs of Paragon Studios and the MA/AE so they can avoid some of the same pitfalls regarding exploits and rewards. Similarly, I hope any improvements that Cryptic makes on the idea can make its way back to Paragon Studios and City of Heroes.
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Posted: Oct 14th 2010 5:09PM Tom in VA said

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Sadly, STO ultimately comes down to some very basic variations on the exact same theme (kill 5 of this, gather 5 of those, interact with 5 consoles, etc.), so that each new mission starts to feel very much like the one you just completed.

While I think the USG is a good idea, I fear the new USG content is going to be just as generic as what I've already experienced (and probably even less so). STO is an OK game punctuated with some real bright spots but a bit too much "been there, done that" drudgery.

Not having played CoH, maybe someone can comment on whether there were flashes of brilliance among the USG missions created there?

As for the Klingon content, it did kind of sound like they were throwing in the towel on that, didn't it? That's disappointing. Or maybe the USG is expected to fill in the "Klingon content gap"?

Posted: Oct 14th 2010 11:24PM Sente said

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Yes, there are certainly a number of very good story arcs in the Mission Architect system and also many that are better or as good as most of the story arcs and missions in the regular game.

However, the amount of junk or less memorable content is much higher. There are more than 60000 story arcs, each with 1-5 missions, in the system. Even if 95% of it would be junk or not so good, there would be more than 3000 story arcs that are good.

The problem is finding the good ones and avoiding the bad ones, as it is now. It will not matter so much how good the UGC tools themselves are if they are at least somewhat good; how Cryptic will handle rewards and managing the content created will be a key factor to how it turns out.

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Posted: Oct 14th 2010 5:28PM DraneceusRex said

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UCG will be call The Forge according to Dstahl's newest interview with STOked. Hope that helps the abbreviation hate.

Posted: Oct 14th 2010 5:47PM Bezza said

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Klingons -- "We will be supporting the KDF as a PvP faction."

Hmmm yep, that pretty much is the death of STO for me, Stahl has back flipped on his initial announcment when he stepped up, that he recognised the significance of the need for the KDF to be finished. Quite frankly if they can't complete the KDF then they dont have any hope of adding other playable factions to STO.

Somone should set a phaser to kill and put it to Stahl's head and pull the trigger because thats what he has done to STO. Go Cyptic! You could only develope a third of a complete MMO and now your just giving in on serious development and letting the players do the hard work for you and I am sure you will cash in on their efforts all the way. It may be exciting for those who will enjoy being able to add content, but the big picture isnt pretty.


Posted: Oct 14th 2010 6:23PM Liltawen said

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I'm looking forward to the Foundry.
The original Star Trek only lasted 3 years before Desilu/Paramount/CBS canceled it.
Since then Star Trek has been all about Fan generated content. For almost 10 years after TOS went off the air Fanfic was all there was before the studios finally decided to cash in on Star Wars. The movies and TV shows would never have happened if not for them and while much of the Trekkie Fanfic was pretty lousy some of it was better and much more interesting than what the 'Devs' in Hollywood managed to come up with.
I think alot of pretty experienced writers will be real interested in the Foundry tools. Hopefully they will be more extensive then 'Kill x what-evers'.
I've been doing Orion RP since launch and I'd certainly try one especially if "We will be supporting the KDF as a PVP faction".

Posted: Oct 15th 2010 12:47AM darrenkitlor said

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KDF are getting new PvE missions in the Pi Canis Sector Block (which also means they'll be able to fly around there).

In addition to new PvE, the Klingons are getting new open PvP functionality too (this is what dstahl was referring too).

As for UGC details, there are two interviews (the latter is exclusively on UGC and around 90 minutes) here:
http://www.subspace-radio.net/index.php/menu-latest-news/41-subspace-radio/517-daniel-stahl-and-mike-apolis-on-ssr

From the sounds of it, they've devised very clever ways to prevent farming/abuse in missions as well as some new functionality to make missions better than the average patrol kill x missions.

Posted: Oct 15th 2010 2:15PM Lepton1000 said

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Amazing to me that the author has no clue that Cryptic and Stahl are not referring to the User-Generated Content system in STO as UGC, but as "The Foundry". Your journalistic skills are amazing.

Posted: Oct 15th 2010 4:49PM (Unverified) said

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The Forge is Neverwinter's UGC toolset.
The Foundry is the one that's for Star Trek Online.

i liked the Subspace Radio interview of Daniel Stahl, but the one with Mike Apolis was drowned out because of the background music - I got sick of straining my ear after the 8 minute mark.

This said, I'm optimistic about how STO's playerbase might be able to use the UGC toolset in STO. Those whom wanted it were people whom wanted to craft thier own stories in the Star Trek universe... a focus or desire CoH's fanbase might not have supported as strongly. Of course, rubbish is going to come out, but it sounds like the comment/feedback/rating system planned for it will help support successful scenarios, which apparently will then in turn be reviewed by the Devs and given actual end-mission rewards.

The above makes me feel that exploiting that system is going to be much harder for the ends of short-term character growth gratuity... and that's probably a good thing. Though it might not matter all that much, considering how earning wealth and advancing in STO isn't especially hard.

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