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Reader Comments (19)

Posted: Oct 9th 2010 3:58PM eNTi said

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interesting read, but consider this:

1. this change is a quasi destruction of the "message" that war delivers... jump in (into an open warband) and have fun for an hour and get out without even the need of saying hi. even the loading screen messages boast with this.

2. if small elite-groups are favoured that much, i can see much worse things happening. all over the battlefield players with supreme gear will reign even more. there have been certain "feared groups" on our server, you knew, if you were hitting them either in orvr or in a scenario, it was your certain death sentence. even i would recognize a few names after those two months. gear and rvr-level dependencies is really that extreme. this game would ultimately need at least 2 more tiers. the way i see it, this patch will favour veterans even more.

3. there's not many good leaders or people who are even willing to lead. it's an unforgiving and unrewarding job and most people either fail or don't bother.

4. finally, i conclude, that this change will alienate newbies (like me) even more and this time, it's not only t4. it will drive people away much sooner.

even disregarding your valid points of leaders unwilling to change from the perspective of a newbie this game will overly favour elite and long-term players yet again ultimately driving many people away. the grind and death-count you have to cope with is just beyond measurement and they are actively making it worse. that's how i see it.

Posted: Oct 10th 2010 11:59AM (Unverified) said

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I was going to reply but this sums it up pretty much. The whole environment is just way too unforgiving for this to work, and on top of that, i would love small team based play and such but how does one find a group? and coordinate? It's a really nice system, but the rvr and gear advantages are far too huge, and the it relies on the community to not mess it up, which after playing for a couple years, i can honestly trust them to do so.
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Posted: Oct 9th 2010 6:22PM (Unverified) said

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When you have a football match played in a tennis field, with teams of 30 players each...it doesn't matter how you change the rules...it will always be a mess.

You can't "disperd the zerg" in RvR lakes witch can be crossed trought in 45 seconds.

Maybe on day they'll integrate PvE areas into the RvR campaign...or maybe not; and WAR will be the game suited for that people for witch "zerg will in fact live on for those who are too stubborn to accept change and in the hearts and minds"

Great article, btw

Posted: Oct 9th 2010 8:14PM Avick said

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Well, for the new folks, it is a harsh but short amount of time that you need to play in T4 to get competitive. By the time you're in full conqueror you're mostly competitive. The amount of rr80s are low enough that they don't dominate the battlefield, just a small portion of it.

Regarding the changes, I would tend to believe that, as zergs fail miserably to cap zones time and time again, they will eventually adjust to playing how the system requires them to.

Posted: Oct 10th 2010 12:06PM (Unverified) said

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Don't know what server you're playing on man, at full conqueror I'm nowhere near competitive. Everyone is in invader or warlord, and there are full groups of 80's roaming sc's and defending keeps against entire zergs. It's out of control. This is Gorfang, to clarify.

And i'd like to think i'm a pretty good player since in both PT play and early tier play i put up stellar numbers, but against the rr and gear advantages that 80's have against my 50, well i just never stood a chance.
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Posted: Oct 9th 2010 8:32PM (Unverified) said

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Nice article ! It made me want to try the game.

So after reading, I went to the WAR website and created an account to download the trial. I got a "Forbidden Access" error. Mmm... so I try again, but this time I get a "Username Already Exists".

Mmm... I think to myself the account must have been created despite the error. So I try to log-in and get "Invalid Password". Strange... So I click on the "Forgot Password" link, enter my username and email and I get a "Forbidden Access" error again.

Long story short : it's good to make change to get new players, but if the account and login systems don't work properly, there's no point.

In the end, I downloaded LOTRO instead.

Posted: Oct 9th 2010 10:55PM Vrazule said

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Doesn't sound casual friendly at all, but more of an elitist's, dictator's dream game. I want smaller scale PvP, but not in a way that requires constant tactics and organizing. I just want to jump in and have some mindless fun and it sounds like they're completely removing that.

Posted: Oct 11th 2010 2:43AM (Unverified) said

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@Greg Waller: Sorry mate but I nearly didn't finish this article because all I read from the first half could be summarised as "QQ". I get it, you're upset with what was going on, next time please just summarise. We dont' need to keep reading all that, and I doubt anyone wanted to. Not to mention it was the first play test where that's to be expected. People take time to adapt and the larger the "group" is that's adapting to new changes, the slower that migration will become. Not to mention you wanted a whole group to protect what amounted to no more than 2 people attacking a location. that'd be a whole lot of people standing around doing nothing while the enemy had #s elsewhere.

@NT, that's some very good points that you've made there mate. I really liked the sound of the changes and have been tempted of late to re-sub and see how things are going but what you're saying makes sense. Factor in several months of not-grinding and I'm well behind the gear curve.

The one thing that has really got me is that I haven't read up on many city seige changes and that's worrying because its one of the reasons I left. The old no-show defense strategy of boring pve grind was really crappy.


Posted: Oct 9th 2010 11:45PM Shadowstorm said

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I think it's premature to make any sort of estimation on what the "Dominant Force" will be with a system that is still in early testing stages. When I first heard about the RvR changes, I figured that both large warbands and small roaming parties would be necessary for different reasons, and as such a single silver bullet just would not exist.

At first, the keeps don't even have access to basic siege weaponry to take to the opposing keep, so a proper assault isn't possible until enough resources have been gathered. This, ideally, would cause people to disperse and take interest in the battle objectives at first. But there's a problem, at least with tier 3 empire vs chaos: distance. 3 of the 4 battle objectives are within a minute or less by mount, and the time a battle objective remains contested on top of the time you have to wait before a resource carrier spawns is more than enough for a very large band of players to move as a collective mass from objective to objective before truly losing anything. I imagine this will be a bit less of an issue in tier 4 when the lakes are larger and the objectives are at least slightly more spread out.

On the other hand, once enough resources have been gathered and your keep is rank 5, there's no more need for the battle objectives and the zone's full force can be brought to bear on the keep. Once that happens, the side with the rank 5 keep doesn't really have a need to go out and defend their objectives other than denying you resources, which as far as I know doesn't help a whole lot with defense.

I do agree though, that players don't seem to have adjusted much at all to the new way of thinking. They're still british redcoats mustering on the field of battle while their enemies are hiding in the treeline with rifles aimed at their officer's heads.

Posted: Oct 10th 2010 12:11PM Greg W said

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"and the time a battle objective remains contested on top of the time you have to wait before a resource carrier spawns is more than enough for a very large band of players to move as a collective mass from objective to objective before truly losing anything."

Shadowstorm,

This is exactly what I'm talking about. If your collective flips say, the Tavern, for instance, and then proceeds en-masse along its route, a small strike team or even a solo player could back-cap the Tavern immediately after your collective leaves. This constant back-and-forth flipping serves to accomplish nothing for either side, since the objective is never actually captured long enough for either side to generate enough resources from it for a carrier to spawn.

But say that your opposing force has an ace up its sleave, and provides your zerg with a carrot, say... a squad of highly mobile troops to lead your mindless force around for a minute or two -- just long enough for those back-capped resources to generate a single carrier for the opposing team before the resource is projected to be taken back by your sluggish, predictable, inefficient mob.
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Posted: Oct 10th 2010 6:15AM (Unverified) said

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People will adapt, you will get the small groups focusing on the resources and objectives, but the second it turns to taking the keep, them the zerg will reappear, it is just the nature of the beast.

Posted: Oct 10th 2010 12:17PM Greg W said

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Bobfish,

Naturally, yes. This is ultimately true. But at the other end of the spectrum, when the zone first becomes available and the land-grab for the first resources begins, it is more important than ever to make absolutely certain that your realm, at the very very least, maintains status quo with the opposition's resource gain. This means that even the slightest amount of resource harrassment can turn the tide very quickly as the rank 1, 50% carrier armor boost is a HUGE advantage and comes very quickly.

Early losses are very hard to recover from, and so far, the zerg has completely failed to do so after losing just a single carrier and falling behind in resource generation in the early game.
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Posted: Oct 10th 2010 12:23PM Jade Effect said

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I hope this new emphasis on small groups does not take away what I believe to be one of Warhammer Online's strength: pvp accessibility.

It seems Mythic is trying to re-create the feel of Dark Age of Camelot (DAoC), after they stated they're gonna revamp the current renown rewards after realm abilities. It would be a shame if Warhammer Online sinks into the gank group elitism so rampant in DAoC.

Posted: Oct 10th 2010 2:00PM Shadowstorm said

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I see your point about a small band of players being able to harass the zerg, to a point. But what do you mean by a "Carrot" for the zerg to follow? It sounds to me like your idea would be a giant game of cat and mouse while a second group handles the resources. I'm not sure the game has the tools for such a maneuver without relying on your enemy being incredibly short-sighted. Then again, should they actually wise up they're bound to split up and try covering all the objectives at once.

I'm still waiting on a field test of tier 4 when the terrain will actually help this goal. To me, it's much more fun using terrain tactics to outsmart your opponent than trying to play to their stupidity.

Posted: Oct 11th 2010 10:23AM (Unverified) said

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While it seems you have grasp the 1.4 oRvR changes are something great and positive for the game, you seem to be missing a big part of the changes.

Currently with out 1.4 is designed.. no matter how hard your small little band of thieves fight overwhelming odds over the Battlefield objectives, and also killing all the opposing realm players in sight. It doesn't matter because your little band of thieves wont be able to hold it. and the very second you leave. or the very second the opposing realm returns. That whole entire fight you just had, wont matter. And it did nothing to help the realm at all.

And thats why the current state of 1.4 is fail.

Posted: Oct 11th 2010 11:54AM Greg W said

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Testpig,

If you've ever played Reikland Factory, then you understand the base concepts that drive this new design forward. The zerg is defeated every time in that scenario by smaller, agile, back-capping groups that avoid or otherwise distract the zerg from the fact that it is losing.

Yes, you're correct, the 6-man squad will lose to the roaming zerg once the zerg returns on its inevitable circuit of doom. However, the zerg stands to hold no objectives, and as a result, to gain no resources and will almost always look up to see that the three objectives they capped behind them are already under attack, possibly captured, and generating resources for their enemy.

Just remember - winning the war is more than just a single battle. Or at least it will be, once these new RvR packs hit the live servers.
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Posted: Oct 11th 2010 5:55AM Suplyndmnd said

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Oh great, so AsianForce will be even more godly. It's not a good time to be destro on the badlands server!

Posted: Oct 12th 2010 11:30AM (Unverified) said

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Tried getting back into WAR earlier in the summer but it just sucks since the middle Tiers are basically dead. These changes sound cool, but too little too late. WAR's a complete failure of a game since it has no open world feel to it, just a bunch of instances linked together.

Bring on 40k

Posted: Oct 12th 2010 5:54PM (Unverified) said

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@Greg Waller

but the difference between Rkfactory, and the current RvR changes.. when you capture a flag in RKfactory, you gain a steady points for controlling it. with the new change, you don't get anything for controlking it. Infact, you don't get anything, you don't even get an "overtime" option as the other realm is taking it from you, because they just have to touch the flag and it's theres

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