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Posted: Oct 9th 2010 7:41PM (Unverified) said

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Having "over the top" Jeff Hickman at that conference is like having Jeffrey Dahmer at a vegetarian conference.

Hickman was a huge reason why Warhammer came out in a crap ass state. He should be black listed after what he did. Actually both he and Paul Barnett.

Jeff Hickman.....Pulease.....

Posted: Oct 9th 2010 8:44PM XOR said

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well, using a cannibalistic mass murderer as a comparison is strong, but I'll give it to ya man. War was a pretty bad at release.

Any publisher that releases an MMO in really--REALLY-- bad shape should at least be worthy of some type of industry fine. It's like saying, "Here man, buy this car for $100," and then you get in it only to find that there's no steering wheel, or the brakes make you shift into reverse gear.
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Posted: Oct 10th 2010 12:47AM JuliusSeizure said

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You know, maybe his input is really valuable -because- of his screwups? You learn more from mistakes than successes, because succeeding doesn't really tell you what worked so well as failing tells you what went wrong.
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Posted: Oct 9th 2010 8:08PM Fakeassname said

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yeah, the funny thing is that the only companies in representation that actually follow that advice is CCP and Nexon.

EA's mmo department is in the dumps and clinging to TOR as it's only hope, SOE isn't too far behind EA but despite EA being a bigger failure SOE stands as the poster child for what not to do with your mmo's, Turbine my be riding a wave right now but all they have going for them is community critical mass from the F2P shift and once that dies out people will just realize how crappy the technical mechanics of DnD and Lotr are and wander off to the next "big and shinny" that catches their eye.

hopefully someone in the audience has a spare set of notes from this to share with those three 'cause after years of not taking notes from customer complaints I really doubt they were suddenly taking them now ...

Posted: Oct 9th 2010 8:26PM Avick said

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Despite your personal opinions, all of their respective games have succeeded past this "6 month mark" which the panel had determined to be the make or break point for most MMOs.

If you were to take out all of the names you don't like, what does that leave us? CCP, Nexon, and Blizzard for big names, which I would assume are the ones you were thinking about.

And then for your actual criticisms, SoE and EA own the properties of the two longest-running MMOs. If that doesn't qualify them then absolutely nothing does. Besides these two, you downplay the successes of the other companies as happenstance, which you certainly cannot prove.
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Posted: Oct 9th 2010 10:44PM Birk said

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@Fakeassname

"Turbine my be riding a wave right now but all they have going for them is community critical mass from the F2P shift and once that dies out people will just realize how crappy the technical mechanics of DnD and Lotr are and wander off to the next "big and shinny" that catches their eye."

I'm just curious as to what technical mechanics you're talking about? I'm not being facetious; I just started playing the game at F2P launch and am loving it so far. Everything about the game has actually made me forget about mechanics or number crunching, and has got me in the spirit of the ambience, storytelling, and exploration.

But I'm curious to hear what gripes you have with this game that I have fallen in love with. Genuinely. Not being sarcastic!

-Birk
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Posted: Oct 10th 2010 2:44AM Fakeassname said

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@Brik

with turbine's stuff it's that the core game mechanics are faulty, the only real pull behind them is that people want to play with the IP behind each one. if you were to somehow strip the all the IP content out of these two games and have it replaced with generic but somehow equal (as in not lame) fantasy content the games would fall flat on their faces.

you would essentially end up with Alganon: bland gameplay.

I played DnD before the f2p transition and until I see some kind of report that the underlining game play has been changed from what I played, I see no reason to go back now that it is F2P.

I can't (and shouldn't, but I do anyway) speak for LOTR as I haven't actually played it, but ... I've had several friends give me the run down on how it works and I'm not hearing anything spiritually different from what I saw with DnD. in all honesty I probably should try out LOTR just so that I can bitch with authority.

right now Turbines babys have got two really killer communities going on and with mmo's that's actually all that matters, if they can keep that up then all is well. however ... as of this writing all that turbine has done is shell out a limited trial of each and attach a "Pay 2 Win" cash shop on 'em. that hardly justifies how their marketing department as all but labeled these games as completely new code, and until these games do get rewrites this community wave is a temporary thing as there was ample reason no one wanted to play them back before they had to pay cash on the barrel for magic potions.
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Posted: Oct 10th 2010 11:07AM (Unverified) said

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Actually I think DDOs mechanics were great. I still yearn for another game that allows me to hide my healer behind a tank who, by lifting his shield to block, is actually able to deflect arrows and such from hurting me. The ability to use your party members and enviroment in that way was (to me) very unique and refreshing. I can't boast the same amount of mmo experience most do so perhaps there are other games out there that work the same way but I have not personally seen it anywhere else and I loved it.

As for LotRO: bland is a fitting description. The game is polished, I'll give them that. But the gameplay itself is just...not fun.
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Posted: Oct 9th 2010 8:31PM elliotrock said

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Finally they have realized not to chase the stupid wantabe WoW clone. A lot of people have played that game and have left for various reasons - like life balance!

I am glad to see some examination of new payment models because this leads to new game development ideas. Removing an entrapment style game system (wow as an example with the need to play with others to achieve anything), because you don't need to addict people to your game is something to explore. Eve has its time based skill learning, AoC has its offline leveling.

There is so much more to achieve to make games viable for the long term. I am sick of seeing genius (TCoS combat system for example) getting lost to idiot management (Acclaim) and blood thirsty buyouts (Playdom).

That leads me to one factor that I wasn't mentioned and that is insuring games have management that doesn't stuff the game through cut throat business decisions.

I could go on....

Posted: Oct 9th 2010 10:15PM (Unverified) said

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I would have to say that a lot of companies (including the companies listed above ) need to look at the current MMO's that are still in operation, and compare them side by side with the quality of work that's being put out more commonly today.

Sure, a lot of games in general release with bugs and whatnot, there's no way around that, but games are coming out more and more often that are half finished, re-named cookie cutter models. Not only are they not trying to make something new, they're not even bothering to finish the darn things! There really isn't an excuse, and frankly, the whole " It's more about money than making something people care about " argument is just stupid. If you really want to make money, make something people care about, or else they'll drop you at the first sight of something better, as even the past 6 months has shown, much less all of history in general.

It's so sad that people need a "panel" to explain to them the basics of human nature, and a little bit of common sense. I guess at least it was good of these guys to step up and try to open some otherwise bleary and half crusted shut eyes.

Posted: Oct 9th 2010 11:34PM Vrazule said

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What, no mention of revamping the MMO genre or at least innovating, but rather copying past successes. My hopes for this genre moving forward beyond a snail's pace has been utterly crushed.

Posted: Oct 10th 2010 3:43AM Fakeassname said

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Truth
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Posted: Oct 10th 2010 6:15AM lee3821 said

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Sadly, seems to be true.
Either we get a Warcrack clone or we get something lacking modern MMO features. (Sometimes both!)
We need an original MMO with a customizable UI, AH, non-laggy UI, actually designed for the PC not console, etc...And nice graphics. No need for perfection, but decent graphics would be a plus. Just don't run at 16 FPS on my HD5850. Please?
Oh, and in case it's not obvious, I'm currently playing FFXIV right now...
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Posted: Oct 10th 2010 12:48AM (Unverified) said

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i want an mmo without limitations.... have mounts can fly everywhere can ganked everywhere, can pve can pvp can do lots of crafting can go to dungeons killing bosses with lot of epic drops, can summon people to you, blah blah blah...

this game familiar? oh yeah! game for the masses.

The only limitation of Warcrack is the graphics. If only blizz can have 1 or 2 servers to cater for people with high end computer and if they can make character with awesome animation like tera ffixv gw2 aion, well. i wont buy any other mmo games.

Posted: Oct 10th 2010 9:26AM MrDiamondJ said

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All this complaining about graphics, and people wonder why WoW looks the way it does and why games are being made for consoles. It's because not requiring uber-leet hardware opens a game up to a massive audience. I've never understood how that's a bad thing.

People with high end hardware need to realize they're the minority. I'm sure Ferrari owners wish all the world's highways were without speed limits, but they also know that's not going to happen because it's not good for the vast majority of drivers.

Posted: Oct 10th 2010 10:19AM (Unverified) said

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Umm.... how is this a story with no video? Or at least a transcript?

If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any disco! How can you have any disco if you don't eat your meat?

Posted: Oct 10th 2010 11:17AM Dogorox said

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I'd love to see some discussion of Cash Shop policies among the new crop of F2P games that are seemingly coming out every other day.
Basically a "Free to Play vs. Pay to Win" financial strategy comparison.

Posted: Oct 10th 2010 2:33PM tekert said

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Heh I was think the whole time of Aion while reading this, lets see the next year what happends, its a nice test subject.

Posted: Oct 11th 2010 2:10AM oGGe said

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EA/Mythic has every right to be on that panel!

UltimaOnline - launch 1997!!!!? - Still running!
Dark Age of Camelot - launch 2001 - Still running!
Warhammer - Launched 2008 - Still running...

Posted: Oct 11th 2010 10:15AM Ocho said

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Haha the texas icon is in the D of GDC. :)

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