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Reader Comments (37)

Posted: Oct 4th 2010 2:53PM Its Utakata stupid said

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I personally do oppose them...but that's me.

...but IMHO, I think more are worried the B2P will become like a F2P with MT's...which for the most part GW1 distinguishes itself from now. If GW2 is a more refined Cash Shop from GW1, then this controversy will likely end there and not go on much further. But if the Transmutation Stones become something more...like the Cryptic Points "nickle and dime" mechanics of STO, then the controversy will have only just begun. Because there is so very little information on these Stones, a lot are understandably worried it will be the latter until proven otherwise. :(
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Posted: Oct 5th 2010 2:12AM (Unverified) said

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While I agree with you when you compare Transmutation to GW1 makeovers, I can't agree with calling this kind of cosmetic system reasonable as it's too limiting, nor with your following example of a tailor.

First of all, MMO is not a life simulation like Sims and armor/equipment are not equivalents of clothes: while I agree you pay for each thing you order from a tailor, you omit the fact that in real life we have numerous clothes we are changing freely without getting dumber/weaker and we don't pay multiple times for each of them.

Posted: Oct 4th 2010 2:33PM (Unverified) said

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Awesome, although the one thing that worries me (and not the transmutation) is that there will be a new dungeon every 10 levels... level cap is 80, so only 8 maybe 9 Dungeons? I am hoping there will be much more then this.

Also hoping we get another class reveal soon.

Posted: Oct 4th 2010 2:39PM Its Utakata stupid said

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Rubi...

...will we ever see the ArenaNet folks sit down with us "and lay it on the line" about Transmutation Stones? And in return take our feedback how we feel about them?

Because even if they are innoxious as you are indicating they are...they've certainly left a bad taste in many of our mouths to what's been untill that off-the-cuff announcement, a stella perfomance in revealing the game. Just saying...

Posted: Oct 4th 2010 2:44PM Rubi said

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We asked for an interview pretty much as soon as we heard the news last week. We heard back from NCsoft pretty quickly and were told that they are not doing any interviews on it right now. :-(
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Posted: Oct 4th 2010 2:56PM Its Utakata stupid said

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Thank you, Rubi for the prompt reply...

...though your answer I am afraid, which is no fault of your own, is very worrying. :(
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Posted: Oct 4th 2010 2:46PM Tom in VA said

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The subject of dungeons in GW2 is actually the only thing about GW2 that I think is a step backwards from GW1.

In GW1, you could run any dungeon with a player group of ANY size from 1 to 8, using Heroes to fill in for players where needed.

In GW2, the heroes/henches are gone, so players are left in pretty much the same fix as in WoW, LotRO, and most other generic MMOs. Want to run an unpopular dungeon? Good luck with that. Want to run a dungeon at a low-population hour or in a low-population zone? Too bad, so sad.

I do enjoy grouping -- and even PUG'ing -- occasionally. But the "find a full group or skip the dungeon" choice usually translates into "skip the dungeon" for me.

I have to say this loss in accessibility to variable group sizes is pretty disappointing. Going to 5-man dungeons is fine (unlike you, Rubi, I really thought the 8-man parties of GW1 were just too big and unwieldy); but dropping the henches really diminishes GW2 for me because, I suspect, just like in WoW and other MMOs of that ilk, I'll end up skipping most of the dungeons rather than endure "LFG limbo/hell".

Posted: Oct 4th 2010 3:15PM (Unverified) said

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But the makeover kit is only 5-uses. The change is permanent, but the kit is consumable. Same will be for the stones. The change will be permanent (till you decide to change again), but the stone will be consumed. I see no difference. Besides, it's only an appearance changer, same as the makeover kit. I don't see what the big uproar is about when it's just an appearance item.

You don't have to buy a stone till you find all the armor you like best, then you can pick and combine. If others want to combine their lower level armor, let them spend the money. It's like using white or black dye in GW1. Most people don't waste the rare dyes on lower level armor. They wait and use the expensive dye on Prestige armors.

Honestly, until they come out with more information about the in-game store, there is no reason to assume it will be any different than what GW1 has now, except for more variety of similar ideas.

Posted: Oct 4th 2010 10:16PM (Unverified) said

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For the makeover kit, each use allows you to change all of your skin colour, face, hair, hair colour, etc. You then keep your changes "forever" (unless you decide you want to specifically change them again).

A transmutation stone, if it is a consumable one-shot item, allows you to alter one piece of armour to have a different skin, once. For a full armour set, you'd need 6 stones. If the stats that the skin is being applied to are not max, and you really like the skin, to keep it you'll have to do it again. When you're levelling, it's uneconomical to use - which kinda misses the purpose, and becomes a fairly punishing/exploitative mechanic if you actually want to use it.

If it's an account unlock, I'd buy it - no probs (provided the cost wasn't ridiculous, like the price of the full game *lol*). But lets be realistic here - they've created a system that would allow them to have a consumable item. People keep saying "they're a company, they need to be able to make money on the cash shop" - so are they really likely to turn that consumable into an everlasting item or account unlock instead?

If it's relatively cheap (i.e. not $10 per armour set - a makeover was $2 per "appearance set"), I'd consider it for max level items. But I think a better system if they wanted to keep this as a consumable item was one that Drachasor proposed here http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/showpost.php?p=386949&postcount=443 which was a hybrid between the transmutation system ArenaNet discussed and the costume stuff in GW1. He proposed that instead of combining armours, the stone turned the skin item into a costume item that then got worn in a costume slot for that item piece, allowing you to freely use whatever stat-providing item in the armour slot underneath that you wanted. If you really liked that level 20 dungeon's armour skin, you could pay for the 6 stones to convert it to a costume once. Wouldn't matter what your level was - you can still change the stat armour without having to pay again and again and again to keep transferring the skin. Want 3 (non-max) appearance armours to mix-and-match or change style to suit mood/day? You'd still buy 3 armour sets worth of stones - ArenaNet still make money - but consumers also get lasting value for their money rather than having to continue to upgrade the skin all the time.

There's also the question about what the implementation of the Transmutation Stone mechanic actually means in the game world. If you really like the level 20 dungeon armour skin that you worked to get...is it possible to earn a level 80 version of that armour without having to buy stones, or are stones the only way to get an end-game version of that armour? For some people (me included), the concept that it may not be possible to get the armour skin in a max level version - represented by a need for the implementation of a transmutation system in the first place - came as an unexpected shock when we're used to GW1 where that wasn't an issue.

Not all of us disappointed in the description of the current system as it's been given so far are unreasonable jerks who think everything should be just given to us. As someone who would like the system to be fair, reasonable and workable so I can use it if I wish to, I think I have just as much of a reason to be concerned with the current description of the process and what the implications are as someone who thinks "oh good, it's just a customization item in the cash shop that I won't use" has to their feelings (although I do feel narky when a few of them then say "it should be expensive" - if they have no intention of buying themselves, why should I have to pay more to subsidize their gaming?). I'm not asking it to be free, and I don't have a problem paying a reasonable amount for a reasonable return - my issue is that there isn't enough information on the implementation of T-Stones in the cash shop yet AND that the system as it's currently described sounds like an unreasonable return if T-Stones are a consumable item.
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Posted: Oct 4th 2010 3:25PM (Unverified) said

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I'm not sure how buying a cosmetic item (even if it is consumable) for out of game currency is really that big of an issue. I'd be more concerned if they were saying that the best crests or the most effective weapons were going to be only available through the store.

Posted: Oct 4th 2010 4:17PM (Unverified) said

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Many of you are pretty much voting for even more cash shop items in the future.

I certainly don't blame these companies when the majority of players either don't seem to care or are happy paying extra for things that would have been included in the regular price or an expansion. The fanboy types shout down anyone with valid concerns and the suits will shift more and more things to the cash shop. Just have to wait and see how far ArenaNet goes; hopefully nothing approaching the Allods extremes. Hey, if most of the players don't care, more power to them, I guess.

Me, I'll be spending the next month converting sections of a game that was going to be B2P (with no cash shop at all), into the new 'B2P with cash shop' model that many of you seem so happy with. Welcome to the future!

Posted: Oct 4th 2010 9:43PM cray said

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Anytime a company is in the business to provide a service, it's pretty much expected you are going to pay for it. Transmutation Stones are merely a service of switching the pixels to the data you want.

I think the outcry is totally from entitlement perspective, people are crying because they unjustly expect too much from a business.

There was absolutely nothing wrong in the way they delivered the news because it's a service and you are expected to pay for it. It's equivalent to ordering extra cheese on a Pizza. You know it's going to cost you more.

Posted: Oct 5th 2010 4:14AM (Unverified) said

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In my oppinion people - including me - are protesting because the system - as explained - seemstoo limiting and inferior to other systems different MMOs already provide, and on top of that it will require real money.

It's hard to settle for less when you've been serviced in cosmetic department much better, even for the same company and it's mother (Gw1, City of Heroes/Villains).

And frankly, I find it "flat out unacceptable" that I have to limit myself in control over how my character looks until I get best gear, not to mention that with every expansion and addition "best gear" will probably change and I would have to pay again for the same thing (in my oppinion), being same look if I decide to keep it.

I don't think there would be much of an uproar if the system was about buying permanent costumes from the store/possibility to create them yourself from the gear without the fear of having to pay again and again ith every level cap increase and gear change, and with a promise of easy swap between the costumes. Because as I see it, the players for whom costumes are important not only like to have a control over how their characters look, but when. One fixed look is also not an option and switching should be made easy without having impact on performance (attributes) and without having to pay (I'll write that again) multiple times for same look.

Posted: Oct 5th 2010 5:28AM Pan1 said

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I think the way the comment was made says more then we need to know about the stones.

Adding the fact that they refuse to go deeper into it just adds to that idea.
Up to now they made it a point to remove any confusions as soon as they released the information. But with Tstones they all of a sudden are unable to?

GW2 seems to be pushing bounderies in every possible way and we are happy with it, yet the Tstones as a system is pretty dated and too messy.

But since its a cash shop item the qaulity can be less then the rest of the game?
I'm sorry, no matter how much I like the concept of GW2 I can't ignore the writing on the wall.

I'm also not saying I'm against any type of MT's in GW2, I'm just saying that compared to the behaviour of Anet in the past, the Tstone situations smells badly and Anet knows it. As such I am very surprised to see them ignoring the issue.

Personally I'll most likely will not use these stones because they are build on fear and anxiety. And those 2 emotions are the driving force behind traditional item mall services. I honestly expected Anet to be above such behaviour.

Then again, this might be Ncsoft talking, eventhough I doubt it.

Posted: Oct 5th 2010 11:05AM (Unverified) said

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Worry? Why? It is a game. If it seems like a bad deal once it is released I will not buy it. However, I would be very surprised if this is the case.

Posted: Oct 7th 2010 4:51PM bylthe said

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I have no problems with a cash shop in GW2 or the stones being cash shop only.

Posted: Oct 8th 2010 11:07PM (Unverified) said

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Why did none mentionned that it was actually a step backward from GW1?
You know, there is a reason inscribtion exist, and part of it was to sepate look and stats...

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