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Reader Comments (15)

Posted: Oct 2nd 2010 6:42PM Rialle said

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It seems a bit off to me when WoW is compared to FFXI in terms of earning money.

Things aren't nearly as bad as you make them to be in the former. Sure, the value of newbie crafting items and some of the gear is inflated from what it was at the beginning, but a completely new player can still easily make money. A little bit of farming should allow for the collection of leather, copper, or other crafting items to throw up on AH. They can undercut everyone else and still end up with more money than a level 10 could have ever dreamed of in 2004. It is going to take some time out of their leveling, but it isn't like getting to 80 in WoW is hard by any measure.

Even when money is ridiculously easy to get, as it is in WoW, it still doesn't stop RMT. No matter how simple it is to make money, there will still be people who are too lazy to do it themselves.

Posted: Oct 2nd 2010 6:42PM (Unverified) said

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As I've also seen pointed out: Weapons and armor are time consuming and hard to make, more often than not requiring multiple pieces from multiple crafting jobs. The easy recipes tend to be consumables. This means that more often than not people are leveling by making consumable items, rather than permanent ones.

In games like WoW people will just level crafting off of whatever is convenient, which can include armor and weapons, and dump them on the market all at once. Devaluing them. So yeah, that's less likely to happen with consumables.

Posted: Oct 2nd 2010 7:11PM Ekphrasis said

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I find no Auction House refreshing.

Take CoH as an example; until the AH came along the only way for influence (gold/gil etc) filth to accumulate in-game wealth was to farm specific content over and over.

Once the AH was implemented however, there was suddenly an easier and less effort/time intensive option available to accumulate wealth - manipulating the market.

Sometimes you could make a huge amount of quick cash by putting items up for sale at high prices as they attempted to buy all the supply (then re-list at 10 times that) but you were only contributing to the problem. Sure, players do it too, but not on the scale that RMT/sellers can.

Better searching function for FFXIV, no AH.

Posted: Oct 2nd 2010 7:26PM (Unverified) said

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The problem with FFXI, in general was the auction house itself. It wasn't an auction house. There was no bidding. You paid what I wanted or else you didn't get the item. The seller controlled the economy instead of the buyer. In a real AH, you can ask for a 1 million but the highest bidder gets it, if thats 1k gil, then so be it. This could not happen in FFXI.

FFXIV is in the same boat. The bazaars are mini FFXI AHs. No bidding. This creates an environment where gil sellers can pretty much control the going price of items and therefore artificially create demand for gil. If SE doesn't change this, 14 might be doomed to suffer the same fate as its parent.

FYI, I'm loving 14, have a good amount of money and am not trashing this game at all. But SE seems to have made the same mistake again that it made all those years ago.

Posted: Oct 2nd 2010 8:06PM (Unverified) said

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I completely disagree here. The buyers have an option NOT to purchase an item at a price they decide is too high. It's how the economy works in reality. But the average party wanted you to have the best items, so there was a lot more pressure to purchase said items, and the demand skyrocketed along with the already rampant inflation. Though that's another issue that's been fixed by removing XP loss and making solo-leveling or leveling with a non-standard group very viable

It does feel like they've done a lot more thinking about the economy in this game, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt when they approach the market stuff conservatively.
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Posted: Oct 2nd 2010 11:38PM (Unverified) said

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"Everything is worth what its purchaser will pay for" Publilius Syrus (~100 BC)

I think that pretty much summarizes FFXI AH economic model. I happened to really like it. It gave me the buyer a quick way to get an item without waiting for 24 hours of bidding to find out if I am the winner.

I do not know how many of you are familiar with Walmarts business dealings. In essence the FFXI AH made the sellers low bid each other to bring the buyers the lowest prices while still making a profit. Walmart does pretty much the same thing with all its products. Companies who want to put their products on the shelves at Walmart have to bid against each other for the lowest price. Thus Walmart is one of the top companies in the world.
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Posted: Oct 2nd 2010 10:45PM (Unverified) said

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I haven't played SWG since pre-cu. But I remember it being fun to shop for the equipment/consumables you needed. You could visit various merchant shops and view the displays of their wares on the walls.

I feel it is an economic model based on information you've gathered. With good info, you'll know where to look for the most economical stuff. It actually forces interaction, not sitting in front of the AH utilizing UI tools to filter the best stuff to buy that you can make profit of.

SWG's is still my preferred economic model.

Posted: Oct 3rd 2010 5:07PM (Unverified) said

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When you're going to compare economic models, there's no greater example than Eve. If FFXIV can even get close to that of Eve, then it'll be a huge success.
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Posted: Oct 3rd 2010 5:30AM WitchDrAsh said

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Certainly during the winter of discontent in FFXI it was basically impossible to play without buying gil, I remember speculating on the market, was trying to buy a Sha'ir Manteel which was 35 mil at the time on Fairy. Money was devaluing so quickly I stopped holding any and just bought gear, whether I needed it or not, a member of my linkshell was trying to get a Scorpion Harness and it was always a couple of mil ahead of what he had, eventually he got it for 20. But that is certainly the point where a lot of people broke and just bought gil, when you could get 1mil for about $5 it sadly became something of a no-brainer to buy gil.

I lost badly in the end because I walked away from the game for 4 months while Squenix got the situation back under control and came back to find the 40mil I had sunk into goods now only worth 8, but it wasn't really an issue as the economy was fixed again.

FFXIV does need a better system, even if it is simply a list of what is for sale on that ward at a central place, I don't think the AH was a major issue, infact a totally player created economy (like FFXI) has always been my preference, but an AH opens up the game to abuse by the unscrupulous, but it is one of those situations where convenience for the masses should really outweigh attempting to hobble RMT.

Posted: Oct 3rd 2010 6:27PM (Unverified) said

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Thankfully, in the next few weeks, Squenix will be reorganizing the Market Wards, and each ward will be dedicated to a particular item to sell. Here's the rundown:

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/detail?id=693682a80ae927d74b11a0381c7cd1af570568aa

Once this happens, I think things are going to get a hell of a lot better.
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Posted: Oct 3rd 2010 7:25AM Khalus said

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The FFXIV Yellow Gremlin site recently opened up their Bazaar, which after a player signs up and links their account through the Lodestone. It keeps track of the item you have for sale in your Player Bazaar and your Retainers.

Check it out here and sign up ~ http://ffxiv.yg.com/bazaar

Its a nice feature until SE adds some kind of search through retainers, but still with or without this or a search function ever, I enjoy the thrill of looking for items manually even if through hundreds of players and retainers.

I honestly hope we never see an AH in XIV even though there is a location for one in Limsa Lominsa already...though closed off for now.

Posted: Oct 3rd 2010 2:20PM (Unverified) said

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I find part of this debate kind of hilarious... there seems to be a lot of people that are claiming the AH caused all the problems and that by removing it everything is simple solved... lulz. Then the same people want a search function.. really simple here: AH = search function. AH in XI didn't cause inflation, the main problem was the NM drops and the severe lack of gear options, basically every player had to have an emp hairpin and the supply was always going to be waaaaaay too short, therefore massive price inflation. SE actually acknowledged this and did something about it with the "knock off" NM drop items... but they also waited about 7 years.

XIV doesn't have this problem because there are no open world NM, lots and lots of crafted gear options, means it won't be that difficult to get gear updates soon as the crafters get settled in.

It's also maddingly hilarious that SE seems to walking their "ward" system ever so slowly towards the AH type system that they already had 8 years ago. Renaming the wards will go a little ways towards organizing all the stuff, but no where near far enough, they will have to do more to appease the playerbase, and then a little more, and a little more, and eventually they will probably just have to break down and give up on this "no search for you" approach that makes no sense at all.

But then they are very stubborn, we might get this thing where instead of simply navigating a menu, we will be walking from category to category, just so they can maintain "there is no AH".


Posted: Oct 3rd 2010 5:03PM (Unverified) said

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The real problem isn't even the basic mechanics of the AH, but the fact that it was limited to only seven slots at a time. I actually liked the auction house was set up, but it really requires competition to be effective. But who is going to compete on price for goods where the margins are thin and demand isn't high?

New characters find themselves with an extremely limited number of inventory and storage slots, so they need to maximize their return -- mostly by farming Crystals and crafting materials. Older characters and dedicated traders don't have the incentive to compete for the market on lower-level goods.

Even with their expanded inventories, who is going to waste their measly seven auction slots with low-level noob goods that have to compete with the NPCs to get any profit from? Crafting skills to make these goods require VAST amounts of money and time to reach -- way out of the reach of new players who already struggle just to equip the basics for their level.

Finally, the actual sources of liquid Gil for new characters are extremely limited. When you need 700g for a basic piece of equipment, farming 10-20g per goblin is lession in futility. The only alternatives are farming, or the (mostly) non-repeatable quests which can take anywhere from a minutes to several days to complete. And no matter what your opinion of FFXI is, I don't think anyone can argue that their Quest system is anything but a tack-on. Compared to WoW, it might not even exist at all.

Posted: Oct 4th 2010 4:22PM Misterlee said

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I've already started getting spam emails about buying FF14 gold, and I didn't even buy the game! If they think not including an AH will stop the gold selling then dream on really.

Posted: Oct 28th 2010 3:23PM (Unverified) said

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Completely disagree with this article. None of that is what caused the massive gil selling problem in FFXI, what caused it was SE's blind refusal to do *anything at all* about it until it was too late. (And then we got the task force...lol.)

Players were complaining about gilseller botting and monopolisation of NMs for years and years. I can remember a period when every Sky NM was camped 24/7 by them, and it was almost impossible to get pop items unless you bought from them. And nothing was done about it.

Fishbots were obvious to any player, for years they got reported over and over, nothing was done.

Mining bots, farming bots, etc, etc. The game was hacked to pieces by the gilsellers and SE just kept telling us that they weren't botting, they were just dedicated people who played longer (LOL).

Every mmorpg has currency sellers. Difference is, in e.g. WoW there's not nearly as many reasons to buy gold. The big one being that the goldsellers can't stop you getting gear by monopolising NMs (and then sell that same gear to you for the gil you bought from them...haha, never said they weren't smart).

So yeah, while they did create a perfect environment for gilselling to flourish, it wasn't for the reasons you give. I started at NA launch and never had any real problem with money until that winter of hyper-inflation years later.

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