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Reader Comments (14)

Posted: Sep 30th 2010 12:06PM i2hellfire said

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mumm-ra?

Posted: Oct 1st 2010 9:12AM (Unverified) said

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LOL srsly right! That was my first thought too hah!
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Posted: Sep 30th 2010 12:44PM (Unverified) said

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I'd like to make an argument against your interpretation of the Chaotic alignment. In my opinion, Chaos isn't about "I did it for the lulz", but rather about a rejection of authority. "Chaotic Stupid" is the bad way to play the alignment. A proper Chaotic Good is someone like Robin Hood, who has altruistic motives even though he operates outside the law.

Similarly, Lawful indicates an adherence to order. This can mean a Code of Honor, but it more typically means exploiting the system (A Demon who makes an incredibly intricate and inescapable contract to trap someone's soul), or maintaining a rigorous adherence to order and expecting everyone to do the same. (The Tyrant who enslaves the people)

The Drug Dealer example kind of works, but seems more like a True Neutral character to me. It depends on his other actions. (Does he only care about money? Does he feel genuine guilt for the suffering he promotes? Why is he selling drugs for? Does he have a child to support?)

...Sorry to go off on a rant. Don't change the article or anything. It's perfectly fine. XD
But my inner D&D Nerd/Troper had to be let out.

Posted: Sep 30th 2010 1:11PM Patrick Mackey said

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I think a tyrant isn't necessarily Lawful Evil. The key difference between alignments is personal ethics; if a tyrant will randomly betray people if they become inconvenient he is probably Neutral Evil, even if he rules people and expects them to follow his edicts.

A chaotic person by his very nature challenges established codes of ethical behavior. A chaotic evil character does things for the lulz. That is the primary difference between him and a neutral evil character. A neutral evil character may have similar motivations (lulz) but he's much more willing to not get lulz now in order to get more lulz later. A chaotic character will inherently do things that make people mad in the immediate short term.

Chaotic good on the other hand, is like Robin Hood, yes. While we never explicitly see Robin Hood say "stealing is wrong," he probably believes that in the majority of cases, it is wrong. If Robin Hood says "stealing is okay if they're a bad guy" he's not much different than a true neutral or neutral evil character -- being a bad guy is a really subjective thing. Han Solo starts off Star Wars firmly in true neutral, but slides towards neutral good as the story progresses until the end of episode 5, where he's pretty much a 100% good guy (you could make an argument for chaotic neutral/chaotic good, but the books make that a little harder).

Morals are a big slippery slope. It's hard to be good and easy to be bad, ethically speaking.
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Posted: Sep 30th 2010 12:51PM arodriguezc said

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I would love to play in villain in CO...

Posted: Sep 30th 2010 1:10PM (Unverified) said

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Hey, your Horde fanboyism is showing. Alliance are not "bigots", nor are Horde "somewhat bloodthirsty." They're flat and outright EVIL. I like shades of grey, but the increasingly sloppy and heavy-handed WoW writers have erased all of that.

Posted: Sep 30th 2010 1:16PM Patrick Mackey said

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It's been a long time since I played WoW (pre-TBC), and I played mostly Alliance-side. Honestly, most of my assessments of the alignments comes from WC3, where the Horde are 100% good guys, but I realize that the UD faction is pretty evil (no idea on the post-TBC factions) and a lot of the post-TBC writing portrays the Alliance as sterling good guys.

You still raid the same endgame supervillains as Horde, so at worst they're anti-villains.
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Posted: Sep 30th 2010 8:09PM Nero823 said

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If you look at Garrosh (Sylvanas also fits) as the Horde and Jaina as the Alliance, you'll definitely think that the factions are black and white. But if you look deeper, they're not. I'll agree that the writers are making it harder to see the shades of gray, but that isn't unintentional. A big point of Cataclysm is a return to the Alliance vs. Horde mentality that Outland and Northrend toned down. There are good and bad people on both sides.

Great article. I'm not the type to be playing the villain. That thinking just isn't for me. You'll find me playing the hero. But it was still and interesting read.
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Posted: Sep 30th 2010 5:47PM The Minn said

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There is no evil side in Aion. Not the Eylos fault the world got divides. Asmos are selfish.

Posted: Sep 30th 2010 1:47PM (Unverified) said

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It's funny, I consider playable villain characters to be a big part of my daily experience in CO. Not because I RP, but because I PvP in the Free For All zone called BASH. From Cryptic's official description:

"The BASH is an outdoor zone where heroes fight in large numbers against one another. The BASH allows players to fight in a way that is closer to villainy than heroics. It is because if this that it is not officially sanctioned by the Hero Games and furthermore not approved. Participants are free to gang up on players, steal defeats (kill steal), lie, cheat, and smash their way to victory. In the end the game is all about the last one standing."

They wrote that description before the game launched, and indeed this free for all zone turned out just as they expected. The costumes and powers in CO allow for the creation of some awesome villains, then they can demonstrate their villainy through real actions in free for all PvP.

Of course, lots of players try to add a lair of sportsmanship to BASH, they are the heroes to contrast with the "win at all cost" villains. Some particular villains have become notorious throughout the community, and they become hunted, unless they are too dangerous to even be faced. Basically, this is a microcosm of a real Free For All PvP game, so anyone familiar with that situation knows, I'm sure, how villains arise in a very convincing way.

Having said all that, of course PvP in CO is not for everyone. Really it is only suitable for the competitive types that are willing to do what it takes to win (in terms of building their characters). But for those of us who do enjoy it, the very real presence of villain characters is a part of the fun.

Posted: Sep 30th 2010 11:49PM Letrange said

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By your listing of types of evil, this would make Bad Bobby neutral evil. He built up his reputation for more than a year to the point where people invested billions of isk into his enterprise then made a power play that he brought off and absconded with 850+billion in isk and assets. Ah, EVE, makes the Mos Eisley Cantina seem like the home of fluffy bunnies...

Posted: Sep 30th 2010 3:31PM (Unverified) said

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I would agree that Bobby is definitively neutral evil, who pretended to be LN or even NG for a long, long, looooong time.

Look at the old story of the Guiding Hand Social Club, too. Deep undercover in their mark's corporation for an entire year, befriended the CEO and got an infiltrator into the vice position by being his friend (or at least pretending to be), and all of it was just leading up to killing the CEO and his ship and walking away with the corp's entire collected assets.

Neutral evil is terrifying.
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Posted: Sep 30th 2010 4:07PM (Unverified) said

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Cube has already said part of what I wanted to say, but I think it bears repeating and confirming. The classic AD&D alignment system does get misunderstood a lot.

Good vs. Evil is pretty easy to understand, except even within that set there can be a big disagreement on what exactly is good or evil depending on who you ask.

Law vs. Chaos measures the direction of influence government and society as a whole has on one's character. A pure Lawful character will adhere to and even enforce on others the rules of society regardless of whether those rules are a benefit or burden. A pure Chaotic character rejects completely the notion that they should be told what to do and not to do by people in "fancy clothes.," regardless of whether the current government benefits or is a burden to the people. So the four polar extremes start to look something like this:

Lawful good supports the government as a means of doing good to the people.
Chaotic good has good intentions for the people, but doesn't think the government itself is good. (AKA a Robin Hood type.) They typically are the people who lead revolutions.
Lawful evil supports a government as a means to their own selfish and nefarious ends. They often support slavery, or in one of the worst cases imaginable genocide of a certain ethnic group to strengthen the country as a whole.
Chaotic evil did it for the "lulz." They generally don't like the "fancy suits" just like their chaotic good neighbors. But they show sociopathic tendencies as well.

City of Heroes implemented alignment system tends to mirror this quite well, except that it isn't really tolerant of the "neutral" alignments. Paragon City's heroes are Good. They spend their time defending the civilian populace against all manner of evil. The villains of the Rogue Isles are generally Evil. They rob, steal, kidnap and murder at will in order to advance their own agendas. Over in Praetoria, the Loyalists represent an absolute Law alignment. They have good and bad people following Emperor Cole, but ultimately they all do so because it is the law. Meanwhile, the Resistance is an absolute Chaos alignment. Whether their motives are altruistic or selfish, they do not like what Emperor Cole is doing and are working to effectively dethrone him.

You do run into the issue of being forced into decisions, so being a true neutral isn't really an option from the start. However this is a pretty good mirror of the classic alignments in Superhero format.

Posted: Sep 30th 2010 5:07PM Skyydragonn said

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I will be posting a reply to this after work tonight as I can patently disprove your assertations of almost every alignment mentioned.

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