The Daily Grind: How involved should guild applications be?

It depends entirely on the guild and their expectations.

If the guild is casual in the way they approach the game then I would expect a more casual approach to recruitment and applications.

If the guild is more serious/hardcore/intense (however you want to put it) then I would expect the application process to reflect that.

This isn't just about incredibly hardcore 'nolife' raiding guilds either, if you run a guild that is very heavily into roleplay or is family friendly or a one nationality/language guild then your application process needs to ensure you are getting the right kind of people joining.

My personal expectations reflect the above, if I'm applying to join a very intense/hardcore organisation then I'd expect an application, an ingame chat, at least one voice interview and a trial period. If I'm joining a casual guild just for hanging about and a bit of a socialise then I'd expect to have a chat to an officer ingame and that's about it (if that even). However, generally speaking, if I am trying to get into a guild and they don't make an effort to make sure I will fit in before I join then I usually decide they are not for me. A lack of effort in the recruitment process often indicates that they could be letting anybody and everybody in and running a consequentially drama filled mess because of it.

I don't know why some people get their panties in a twist about this issue, if you don't like a guild's application process then it is quite likely that's not the guild for you... just go join one that you do think is ok. I know when leading any kind of group if someone says to me "I don't want to go through your application process" I just tell them to take a hike.

I've been on both sides of the coin, applying to get into or leading guilds/corps/organisations, some of which have been casual and some of which have been extremely hardcore. At the end of the day it's horses for courses.

I dislike guilds and avoid them completely. I will not have some nerdy punk dictating how or when I play. Besides, I despise the content that requires a guild type structure anyway, so I have absolutely no need for them.

If the guild is going to play like the game is a job or a career than I expect a job-like interview process. If the guild is structured for fun then I expect to spend some time hanging out with them in game to see if we click (much like hanging with friends at the local pub).

Having said that, I have been in guilds that invited everyone, I have been in guilds that were 'hardcore' raiding, and ones that were 'hardcore' pvp. To be honest, I haven't enjoyed a single one of them which is the reason I won't subscribe to a game that requires a guild to get past a roadblock in content. I see guilds as perks not requirements.

I draw the line at the cavity search. There are just some things I don't want to share with people in a game. Never again.

I think that it gets very silly, very quickly. If I need to fill out a huge application, and put myself of the mercy to be judged by a pimple-ridden teenager, to basically be "hired" for something that doesn't actually pay me, I need to rethink my priorities and where I went wrong in life to lead me to that point. Once a game is a job, I stop playing (unless I'm actually being paid to play it... then it IS a job and its all good). I play games for fun... when a mandatory schedule is given to me, and the ones giving it aren't forking over ample compensation... thats not fun anymore. I play games to have an "escape" from life, not mimic it.

The only guild's I'll join are those that are open and with fun people to hang out with and talk to. If I need to group for anything, I'd hit them up first, and then that helps to build fun gaming relationships. If the guild wants to talk to me first, I have no problem with that... its the easiest way to make sure you're not getting a gold farmer or immature kid and that makes sense... but submitting an application? HA! No way. I have enough self-esteem and don't need to lower myself.

The second I am told to go to an outside website and fill out some stupid application I stop talking to the guildie completely...

I think the best guild application amounts to, "PM us in-game. We'll invite you along on some group activities, and if we get along well, we'll invite you."

Because really, that's the only relevant criterion to joining a guild.

Who still uses "applications"?

These days of in-game chat why would anyone need to fill anything out? I thought that went out as a primary means of recruiting back in the mid 2000's.

I wouldn't fill anything out for anyone anyway. Those types take it way to serious.

So far it seems i'm going to be a fairly lone voice. I think applications are great and serve a purpose. They can be anything from just "What are your expectations" to telling the person joining the requirements like having ventrillo or teamspeak. I much prefer a Guild that has some sort of regimented schedule to it because I play games to advance and almost any game out there you need a group of people to get the good gear. I play Warhammer Online and though a guild isn't required because of the nature of the game and just being able to PUG things it helps to have a group of people who are co-ordinated in their efforts so you can win and get the gear you want.

When i played FFXI I had to join multiple linkshells at the same time for different end game activities and it was required to have a schedule because you have time limitations and with Dynamis you had to put your time down to avoid conflicts with other linkshells.

I agree there is a limitation but they want to know what kind of recruit they are getting and since I want to avoid drama I like the process.

the second a guild says thiers any other requirements other than something like

18+ / Aus time zone / must log once a week

or variants of that is when i start ignoring them

im not gonna have fun if i need to go and farm a bunch of stuff per week to hand into the guild ( im kinda against guild banks in general i'm happy to give gold if someone needs it but putting it in thier for anyone to use however im against)

to me a guild's about fun not having a 2nd job

Depends on the goals.

I'm an officer in a WoW guild, but it's friends and family: basically, nearly everybody knows each other (or at least one or two other people) IRL, and the core of us that started it all have officer rights on one character. The application process consists of "hey guys, mind if my brother / co-worker joins to play with us?"

In roleplay guilds, the app process requires more. This partly weeds out griefers and partly makes sure that the applicant and members view "RP" in more or less the same light. In hardcore guilds of other sorts, you want to check equipment, skills, knowledge, etc. Those goals won't apply to everyone and so many people won't ever want to apply. No worries, it avoids misery for everyone involved.

I don't think there's one answer as to what the process "should" be, just like there's no one right way to make a friend or hire an employee.

I actually started a culture of an in-depth guild "interview" during my MUDing days when I ended up a guild leader for one of the class guilds. Just spending time talking to the other person and asking them questions, some a little off the wall (because our particular guild culture meant having a hefty sense of humour), helped to really sift out those that would fit in from those that wouldn't.

Some of our organizations were more hardcore than others, and the applications got more complex and in-depth, and they worked. Both the guild leaders and the applicant could get a sense of whether it would be a good fit. Call me nitpicky but if I see an application that "spels lik dis u wan m3 in yr guld" I doubt that person is going to bother to take the guild and game as seriously as I'd like the people I hang out with to treat the game, and fling it out like a bad resume.

So yeah, I've never minded applications for MMO guilds. I tend to sift through forums and pick out those that look professionally run because of less drama (or at least handled in a systematic mature manner when it boils up) and better organisation. The guilds I've joined have tended to outlast me and my interest in a particular game, so my picks must be pretty good, though their selection criteria for a member like me must have been pretty loose. :)

Long drawn out applications are the very reason that I don't join guilds anymore. It shouldn't require work outside of the game to get into a group in the game. I usually just play unguilded and socialize regularly with people. Right now in the FFXIV Beta there are already linkshells setting up websites with applications to join, and I'm just floored that an application process is already needed when the game isn't live yet. I understand the need to keep drama out, but also don't understand what is so hard about kicking someone out if they cause trouble.

I've been in some great guilds/clans/kins/sgs, and some really horrible ones. Imho, one of the most important decisions you make in an mmo is what group do you join. Because that can color your experience more than just about everything else.

I've been involved with guilds at both extremes. At one extreme is the blind invite -- some complete stranger spots you without a guild/clan tag and invites you. Accepting such an invite, I've learned the hard way, is just about always a mistake. In some games, when that invite screen pops up, and you are in the middle of a combat or some other kind of interaction, your keystrokes unwittingly get interpretted as 'hell yes, sign me up'. It's happened to me so fast a few times, that I didn't even realize I was even in a guild until the next day.

I've had two of the opposite types of experiences, where it takes forever to actually get into the guild once you've expressed interest. The first time it was in EQ2, and the second in CO. In the first case, my distaste for the game grew in proportion to my annoyance with the guildmaster, so I ended up quitting the game before I could get into the guild. In CO, I had to answer a bunch of irrelevant questions showing that you would be willing to make a fool of yourself, only to discover, once I was in, that the guild wasn't very fun or sociable at all. I quit the game before I even made friends with a single person in that guild.

The best way to find a guild is to have a concrete idea of what kind of guild you want to join, and then look for a guild with those qualities. There are some red flags to look out for : Guilds that invite everyone (spam invites) are a definite no-no. You want a guild that is somewhat selective, or you'll end up with all the people that no other guild would want, plus those who are dumb enough to not realize that that's the case.

On the other hand, guilds that are too selective can be just boring -- they can be too small to have regular grouping, or have no tolerance for differences, and can simply take themselves too seriously.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.