| Mail |
You might also like: WoW Insider, Joystiq, and more

Reader Comments (70)

Posted: Sep 5th 2010 8:41PM Cendres said

  • Half a heart
  • Report
Reading this comments (Why I even bother I have no clue) I'm left wondering, if we don't care how others do certain things, why the heck should they care about us?

I'm only comforted they care enough about our wallets so that I may enjoy something that fits my bill where every other game leaves me unsatisfied and I find no magic. I hope they continue to not listening to the 'West' because there's not much to be proud of at this point in time.

Posted: Sep 5th 2010 8:57PM (Unverified) said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
Because *we* are the customers. Man. This isn't some cultural exchange!!
This is about money. This isn't a diplomatic mission, it's commerce.
As a game company, when you put your design out there on the open market and the majority of people say "Gah, that's no fun..." all other concerns be they founded, rational or otherwise cease to matter.
Your vision, your scheme, your ideas, your passions are all wasted if the product fails to satisfy the customer.
Again, I'll give you a study in contrasts: Bluehole Entertainment, the developer behind TerA (an upcoming MMO) is a Korean developer.
They are, wisely, not trying to sell the western audience on their design vision. Instead they have hired En Masse entertainment to help compile western feedback and then "localize" the game for us.
If enough testers say "this sucks" they take it out. QED.
I'm not obligated to care about how SE feels about anything. If they don't meet the basic requirements of a market, then they deserve to fail in that market.
The end.
Reply

Posted: Sep 5th 2010 9:07PM cic said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
By "magic" do you mean bloated, excessive system requirements, restrictive gameplay, laggy unintuitive and backwards menus, controls that you have to fight with every step of the way, (fecking) software mouse in 2010, an updater that is so horribly coded you have to find a work around for, no community support and no technical support?

This has less to do with what the "West" wants and more to do with masochism and sadism. Developers that are totally out of touch with reality and are too full of their selves to innovate and change with the times.
Reply

Posted: Sep 5th 2010 10:17PM Cendres said

  • Half a heart
  • Report
Yes because localization worked awesome for Aion, please. There should be no such thing as localization, you like it or you don't. There comic series, movies and games we'll never see in NA because the creators and publishers know we don't tolerate what's different then what we are used to sadly.

SE is not perfect, not by a long shot, and yes on many counts they can improve, that doesn't that change our ' do it my way mentality' doesn't suck, homogenizing everything.

I'm all for actual criticism that help, not sweeping silly generalizations borne out of having little interest or patience. I think this is my last comment on this site honestly, will just read the actual articles.
Reply

Posted: Sep 5th 2010 10:17PM wjowski said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Or for if you prefer the short version...

MMOs that nobody cares about don't make any money.
Reply

Posted: Sep 6th 2010 12:03AM (Unverified) said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
@CindyL: Aion's localization consisted of nothing more than translation. The feedback from non-Korean markets was totally ignored, to the extent that we received game updates several months after the Koreans did. I don't know what's TERA's Western team is like, but from the description provided--feedback from the Western playerbase is actively incorporated into game design--it sounds like a significant step up from the Aion situation.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get across in your comments, honestly. You come across as a mere apologist for Square-Enix. There has been PLENTY of valid, thoughtful criticism directed at FFXIV, and S-E itself. YOU choose to write it off because you feel the need to defend the game and company from criticism.

Problem exists between chair and keyboard, IMO.
Reply

Posted: Sep 6th 2010 7:14AM (Unverified) said

  • 1 heart
  • Report
Reading this comments (Why I even bother I have no clue) I'm left wondering, if we don't care how others do certain things, why the heck should they care about us?

I'm only comforted they care enough about our wallets so that I may enjoy something that fits my bill where every other game leaves me unsatisfied and I find no magic. I hope they continue to not listening to the 'West' because there's not much to be proud of at this point in time.



Reposting this because it's valid and it's horrible that the massively system allows a thoughtful counter point to be drowned out by the unwashed masses.

It's not good enough for those that don;t like it to simply not play and get on with life and play what you do enjoy. You all belch your evengelical views trying to convince everyone ho wrights you are and belittle anyone who dares to see merit and value in a game you do not. I'm ashamed to be part of a community which acts like spoiled brats when a company dare not deliver what they want. SE owns game and for a fee will allow you to partake. At no point did you buy the right to dictate how that game works. As has been pointed out, if you don;t like it move on.

As long as people belittle and besmirch those who do enjoy it apologists will exsist because there is a community of bullying, frail minded people bashing their hate out on the keyboard
Reply

Posted: Sep 6th 2010 11:33AM Cendres said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@leahzero

Do you play Aion? The localization also involved XP and leveling curve adjustments before and after release, it wasn't all translation though that's what they were pushing at us.

@Kurosark Thanks, but unfortunately it's easier for me people to see my comments as blind worship when it's really the rudeness and small mindedness of the comments that I'm reacted to and not the actual concerns. O always invite people to read my comment history and get a feel for what I really think, I am not one dimensional and neither is the FFonline community, we have fan forums we know where to go to complain, criticize and tell SE what we really think. We don't eat all the crap they shove at us, but I would never dream of insulting their product based on where they are from.
Reply

Posted: Sep 5th 2010 10:19PM Cendres said

  • Half a heart
  • Report
I'm not a big believer of West vs East crap.

Posted: Sep 6th 2010 2:42AM gamebynight said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
Oh, for fuck sake, take your bigot-speak elsewhere, m'kay?

Posted: Sep 6th 2010 2:46AM Revolting said

  • 2.5 hearts
  • Report
@leahzero: I don't just think it's NA players though; I'm European, and to them, we're all one and the same - not Japanese. That being said, though, from what I hear they're treating their Japanese players in much the same way, with complete detachment.

It's like they've put together what they feel an mmo should be without consulting anyone at all or even caring if anyone outside of their studio agrees on various choices they've made, and just hurled it over the balcony of their ivory tower to land amongst the unwashed masses who will either lap it up, or not... it seems like they don't care either way.

Obviously nobody sets out to make a bad product, and more to the point, I'm fairly certain they'd rather have people paying subscription fees than not, but I've never before seen such a perplexing disinterest in community response. The article's interview is quite alarming - seeing the state the game is in, I think few people will be surprised by their intention to be completely detached from it and the people playing it, but to see them so openly proclaiming their disinterest is quite shocking.

Posted: Sep 6th 2010 2:48AM Revolting said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
... and that was totally supposed to be a reply to my earlier comment thread in the topic. I fail.
Reply

Posted: Sep 6th 2010 2:52AM (Unverified) said

  • 2.5 hearts
  • Report
"It's like they've put together what they feel an mmo should be without consulting anyone at all or even caring if anyone outside of their studio agrees on various choices they've made, and just hurled it over the balcony of their ivory tower to land amongst the unwashed masses who will either lap it up, or not... it seems like they don't care either way."

This is what more and more of the community believes to be the dead on truth of the matter. It doesn't matter what language we speak or what country we call home. The developers have their ideas in their head and do not want to change for anyone...

Every time I play the beta, I can not help but wish they'd just scrap the entire system, and just port every major gameplay element from FFXI over. Right now, the only thing XIV has over XI is the graphics. XI is a far superior game on every other level.
Reply

Posted: Sep 6th 2010 2:59AM gamebynight said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I have to say, there is so much unwarranted negativity in this thread it's not even funny. I think most people in OB would agree the game isn't ready to launch (especially with their atrocious patcher); BUT, so many of you are hung up on comparisons to existing MMOs that it makes you seem jaded and spiteful.

For a second, step back and stop comparing to WoW, or LotRO, or whatever your basis for comparison is. Now, look back to the days of the PSone era Final Fantasy games. FFXIV has FAR more in common with those games than any of the current crop of MMOs. FFXIV is not the evolution of the WoW era MMORPG, it is the evolution of a console game INTO an MMORPG. There's a difference there and it can totally change your expectations and perceptions of the game.

Everything about it seems to indicate that the target audience here is the console crowd and that this is supposed to be their "easing in" to the MMO genre. Actually, here's a quote from Tanaka himself that seems to indicate the same:

"We do not try to compete with World of Warcraft. We really want to convince the fans of Final Fantasy who have never played an MMORPG. But also show to casual gamers that MMORPGs are very exciting to play. We really hope that Final Fantasy XIV will be a good first experience for those new players." - Tanaka interview on FFXIVcore.com.

Look at it from those players point of view. FFXIV takes the console RPG design (admittedly the older generation of FF titles) and opens it up to the internet. For these players, eight hours a week in a single class isn't outrageous. Nor is the eight leve limit in 48-hours. Nor, either, is grinding which has ALWAYS been a staple of the franchise; every game has asked you to grind XP to unlock the next sequence in the story *at some point*.

Even the menu systems should feel familiar to these players. I'll grant you this, the keyboard/mouse setup stinks. It's not good and needs to be reworked. That being said, you can play the game without the mouse and be happier for it the vast majority of the time. It's designed to be controlled, majority, with a single device - be it keyboard or controller. Once you have the keybinds down, opening and navigating the menu becomes second nature. I'd even argue that, for those console FF players, the menu system is simply an evolution of what we'd used in FF7-9.

I'm sorry for going on a diatribe. The fact is, most of the people upset feel that way largely because of comparisons to other games on the market. Taken as an evolution of the older generation of console offerings and the game becomes a different beast entirely -- with a whole different set of expectations.

If you're interested in this game, I implore you, try it out for yourself (preferably with a controller). I find it very sad that many dozens of people will give up on it simply because lots of people expected it to be something other than what it is. The vehemence in many of those replies isn't based on poor design, it's based on the disappointment of getting a different present than what they expected.

But, you know what? If it's Christmas morning, I'll happily take FFXIV as my gift. Lots of people are having fun. You're just not hearing them because they're playing the game.

Posted: Sep 6th 2010 3:18AM Addfwyn said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Cheers for positivity and an open mind, instead of the bitter cynicism that seems to characterize all gaming-based discussions these days. Well written, sir.
Reply

Posted: Sep 6th 2010 3:47AM Synthetic said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
I applaud your efforts, sir, in defending FFXIV and providing a not unjust take on how you believe it should be approached.

What you've said makes an odd sort of sense to me especially if taken not from the perspective of the target audience but from the Square-Enix team in charge of FFXIV itself.

All the same, I will caution you that it is unwise and ill advised to ignore, as I believe you are implying we do, every game since the developement of the PS1 generation of Final Fantasy games simply to give XIV it's fair shake. I don't believe there to be anything fair in that estimation of the game; quite, the opposite, really - it's unfair to give FFXIV such an overwhelming advantage as to blind ourselves to all the great progressions we've made in gaming both mechanically and thematically.

Speaking purely of the MMO genre, World of Warcraft changed everything*. It has created a massively multiplayer game with such a low barrier to entry that is accessible enough that it has become part of our culture moreso than any other game before it. Does this mean every (MMO) game since needs to be a clone or derivative of WoW? Certainly not. To try to compete so directly with the behemoth is certain death, we've all seen it before. Niche games can and do exist. These cater to different interests and playstyles but it's wrong to think they can't take away from Warcraft. Particularly on the point of accessibiilty.

Where World of Warcraft has made a game idiot proof (and enjoyed amazing success because of it), Final Fantasy XIV seems a litmus test weeding out anybody who isn't already in love with the game. And please don't view that as my calling anyone giving it a positive (p)review a fanboy, I'm not.

And I also believe Square-Enix to be wrong in their approach to wooing casual gamers. The thought of them marketing it as a casual friendly game when it requires perhaps a greater time investment than other MMOs scares me a little bit. It makes me fear that this really will be somebody's first massively online game and that it will turn them off the genre all together.

I played and enjoyed FFXI. If XIV is just a clone of that, which I've read people who like it describing as otherwise, then that wouldn't be so bad. The general complaint is that it's very unintuitive and unnecessarily convoluted.

To your point, FFXIV (or any other game, really) is not a bad game just because it doesn't meet expectations. The question, however, is whether it's better than? Is it better than something else I could be playing for my MMO fix? A question I'm sure many will answer, "Yes!"

Let us see how it goes.
Reply

Posted: Sep 6th 2010 4:02AM tchuks said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Well said.

A lot of the negative comments IS coming from people who have played other MMO's. Some of the comments are valid, but it's almost as if people hate FFXIV just because it's not like the other MMO they play.

If you like that other MMO so much, play that. Playing FFXI for several years, I've used the mouse when I'm in windowed mode and wanted to select a different window on my desktop. In other words, never used the mouse in game. When I read people say "the software mouse is laggy" I really wonder if the game MAKES you use it... because if there isn't a requirement to use it, then don't.

Comparing FFXI or FFXIV to any other MMO doesn't make sense. They are for different people. There are people that enjoy WoW, and if you do, keep playing it. If you enjoy Aion, or LotRO, or GW, or whatever, keep playing them. Why come to the FFXI/FFXIV forums just to say "oh I hate these games they aren't anything like *insert MMO*!" And some people WANT that. Not everyone likes WoW, GW, EQ, etc...

It doesn't make anyone "better" or "more hardcore" it's just a matter of preference.
Reply

Posted: Sep 6th 2010 8:33AM Purkit said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Nice argument, I can see where you are coming from and you have some very valid points of view. However those points have their counter arguments which Syntax has already largely covered.

Fact is people that love FF will try to look at the positives and ignore the negatives as trivial or part of the charm. The 'its not a traditional MMO' argument is valid to a point, but that doesn't give SE a free card to make poor design choices.
Reply

Posted: Sep 6th 2010 11:14AM Laren said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Chris,

I've never played a final fantasy game. I am coming from the Wow, Lotro, Guild Wars, Aoc, Warhammer, Aion camp of mmos. From your post, it seems like I won't like FFIV. Thanks for the heads up. I'll skip it for now.

It does seem short sighted of SE not to want me as a customer, but oh well. Maybe they'll patch in PC controls someday for me. It doesn't have to work like traditional games, but if I'll just feel frustrated and annoyed, I'm not going to play the game.

Reply

Posted: Sep 6th 2010 3:17AM Addfwyn said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
What is with the racism? I live in Japan, I'm not Japanese. Sure, there are some racists here (Like you apparently) but for the most part people here are just as friendly as anyone else.

And a company is obviously going to want people to buy their product, they aren't going to care what the race of the person buying their product is.

Featured Stories

Engadget

Engadget

Joystiq

Joystiq

WoW Insider

WoW

TUAW

TUAW