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Posted: Sep 5th 2010 8:28PM Arsinek said

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But but but EVE fanbois say the UI is perfect.

Posted: Sep 5th 2010 8:31PM Arsinek said

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Posting my post from another EVE thread since it fits the subject of this article...

The problem with EVE is...

1. UI sucks and not just because its hard to read, its virtually uncustomizable. All MMOs should have a fully customizable UI or allow people to make UI mods to customize the UI. If I recall EVE doesnt allow mods.

2. Combat is boring. You dont aim yourself, you just select something hit fire then fly in circles until the target is dead. And you dont even fly in circles yourself thats done automatically too. Which brings up another point.

3. You move by clicking. You click a spot on the screen and your ship goes there. Then once you get to where you clicked you either just sit there or tell the computer to have your ship fly in circles aka orbit. Not much piloting goes on. It would be way funner if flying was like the old xwing/tie fighter games.

4. Traveling sucks. It takes forever to go anywhere in the game. Often to get to where you want to go you have to go through 20 "gates" which takes way too long. There should be something like "major gates" that will take you to a whole other system then "mini gates" to get around that system.

5. PVP sucks. There is no easy way to hop into some PVP. I never went to 0.0 which is where all the big PVP is supposed to take place but as a new player you cant go to 0.0 I dont even know how long it takes before youll be ready to go out there I got bored of the game before that ever happened. So youll have to settle for joining the militias which are found in higher sec areas and the militia PVP is boring as hell. You fly around endlessly struggling to find something to shoot at.
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Posted: Sep 6th 2010 12:00AM (Unverified) said

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i don't think you "get" EVE
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Posted: Sep 6th 2010 12:39AM Arsinek said

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Tell me what Im not getting? Where is the fun? You have a space ship game that sucks when it comes to piloting space ships.

Also, for those who havent played it, your ship doesnt instantly move when you double click in the void of space, which is the only way to move, it sits for a minute then slowly goes to where you clicked. The bigger the ship the slower it moves and the slower it reacts to your space clicking.

If you like games that revolve around harvesting and looking at charts and tables by all means EVE is the game for you. If you like excitement and action look elsewhere.
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Posted: Sep 6th 2010 5:06AM (Unverified) said

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sorry mate but.. did you evere played EVE???

"I dont even know how long it takes before youll be ready to go out there" referring to 0.0 is ...if you act pvp as you wrote.. the answer for you is never...




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Posted: Sep 6th 2010 3:48PM Lateris said

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Hey-I am now open minded after reading a well written article by some one who actually plays the game. I get too defensive with Eve because I think people want to make the UI into a hot action bar UI which is very closed minded of me. I apologize. Seeing the picture below the Incarna Pic is actually inspirational.
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Posted: Sep 7th 2010 9:28AM (Unverified) said

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Um, most long time players have huge problems with the UI. You can PvP effectively in a fleet against players of any 'age' after a few hours of training time after character creation, can't say the same for practically any other MMO. I was in 0.0 on my second day, actually. Did you ever attempt to find a nullsec corp at all? You'd have to be borderline retarded to be unable to find PvP in EVE. It sounds like you've done nothing but PvE, which is nothing like PvP is a small portion of the game, in the starting systems without ever having joined a corp. EVE is a social game above all else, you need a corp and you need people with common goals.

You're wanting to play EVE like you would WoW or any other EQ2-style MMO, when it's really much more similar to RTS. The dynamics in EVE's PvP are far more oriented towards tactics, coordination, and execution of a strategy than twitch gameplay. Some people enjoy combat that's more cerebral than a hand-eye coordination exercise. There's much more going on than 'press orbit and fire guns', simply doing that will usually get you killed pretty quickly.
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Posted: Sep 5th 2010 10:14PM (Unverified) said

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Updates in Eve have generally been touted as free to the player but the problem is that as stated in the article outside of these updates there are very few if any content patches to the game in between the big updates. Previous updates have upgraded the quality of graphics spaceships and stations but since the player can't customize these the long term impact of this is negligible.

In Eve since the majority of items are player crafted the lack of any sort of player housing or individuality in the player, or their ship has been a very basic hole in the game. Other than a killmail there really isn't any way in the game to celebrate your achievements but with an actual avatar that opens up the possibilities of being able to have and show trophies and to customize and change over time the avatar and its surroundings so this has the potential to dramatically expand not only the game for the player but the overall economic foundations as the need for clean underwear will become pandemic.

There is a basic problem with Eve in that it wants to be a PVP game and wants to minimize the PVE part of the game but since a losing player loses not only the match but their ship and possibly implants a loss in a PVP event is not a trivial event (rightfully so) which means that you can't realistically expect people to PVP 24x7 though it feels as if CCP expects there to be constant warfare and struggle for territorial control and so gives the PVE aspect of the game short shrift.

Considering that CCP is currently struggling to be able to support large numbers of players engaged in a single battle it seems that making more and more diverse PVE content available would go a long way towards keeping players busy and happy.

Other issues or limitations such as the poor ship control seem to be nowhere on the agenda.

Posted: Sep 5th 2010 10:12PM (Unverified) said

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. . . someone doesn't seem to like EVE Online! O.o

Posted: Sep 6th 2010 12:14AM SgtBaker said

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EVE is more like chess mmk'? It's not twitchy, you need patience, strategy and follow-through. The combat has meaning, it's strategic - the fact that you can't aim yourself or control your ship in dog-fight style is very irrelevant.

Ok, it's chess with a bad UI/font, but what do you expect, it's mostly a university student programming project, so of course things like "final polish" are missing.

But the idea/execution is still pretty damn cooler than anything else out there.

Posted: Sep 6th 2010 1:25AM WolvenSpectre said

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I just wish they would hit pause on the whiz bang new features, and work on the foundation of EVE by fixing those relatively easy bugs, design issues, and UI problems. Most of them aren't a big deal, but when they are left unaddressed its like a dripping faucet when you are trying to sleep. The longer it goes the more irritating it becomes.

It also doesn't help that they say that they cant look at any player raised issues for over a year and a half!

You don't build a house higher on shaky foundations.

Posted: Sep 6th 2010 2:26AM Unverfied B said

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If only....

Walking in stations - is "coming in the next winter expansion" for 5 years by now... Can you say "Vaporware"?

Graphical UI elements - It's the same hideous UI eve had since lunch pretty much, doubt anything will change.

Building on those foundations - Oh right, like they built on the foundation of COSMOS missions, exploration system, Sov2.0, T3 ships, etc... every expansion i remember featured some unfinished crap that was supposed to be a foundation to something better... and i can count the times that happened on 1 finger.

Iterating on old features - Or we just get more unfinished crap that will be forever forgotten once released...

Posted: Sep 6th 2010 4:14AM Dirame said

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Apparently walking in stations is going to show itself at the next Eve fanfest and may be released as the first expansion for next year...but who knows....
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Posted: Sep 6th 2010 4:39AM Mcgreag said

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"Graphical UI elements - It's the same hideous UI eve had since lunch pretty much, doubt anything will change."

Not entirely true. The game had a fairly large UI revamp in Exodus (nov 2004). The launch UI was even worse.
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Posted: Sep 6th 2010 10:51AM axler said

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"Tell me what Im not getting? "

With pleasure

"Where is the fun? You have a space ship game that sucks when it comes to piloting space ships."

I assume you are referring to the fact that its not a twitch based game, and you don't pilot your ship with mouse and wasd?

well lets us assume for a moment that not all people are like you. we can then further expand by saying that perhaps not all people have the same taste as you. we can go even further and say that games can be divided into twitch based and not-twitch based and since there are people with different tastes some will like one and some the other.

eve is a sort of chess, with spaceships, and explosions. you don't win by having better reflexes then your opponent, you win by being smarter, and having a better strategy. the difference from chess is of course that it is far more complex in its sandbox world and allows you to do wonders with your intellect. from deception and traps, to getting 1000 people to construct and equip their ship in the same way so that you may all follow the same tactic.

a long time ago all ships used to fit modules that would repair them. and this would perhaps work in a 1v1 fight where one ship did slightly more damage then what the other ship could repair. however when there was a 100v100 or 500v500 fight and you when primaried by the enemy fleet, that one repairing module did absolutely nothing for you.
so someone had the idea of removing the module which would repair you and people looked at him funny. but instead he would put on all ships in the fleet remote repairing modules which could repair your friends. so that when primaried all fleet mates would rep you and, if disciplined enough, no battleships would die. this was a huge success and is now used in all larger engagements.
and it shows the beauty of the sandbox, someone had an out of the box idea, and was then, with a smaller fleet, engage large numbers, and not lose a single ship.

so we have a very complex game of chess based in a science fiction universe.
just because it is not your style of gaming, do not, for a second, assume there aren't a lot of us out there, who absolutely love it.

"Also, for those who havent played it, your ship doesnt instantly move when you double click in the void of space, which is the only way to move, it sits for a minute then slowly goes to where you clicked."

wrong, you fly your ship tactically. ships in eve aren't fighters, they are battlecruisers, battleships and so on and so forth. big ships. and you don't fly those with a stick. you fly them by defining different speeds and orbits and directions.

and how fast you go, and how close you orbit, determines your transversal velocity. and if your transversal is high enough, and the guns on the enemy ship are too big, then they cant track you, and they cant hit you.

see...tactics. winning by having a better strategy. the fact that you think you can only move by clicking in space tells me you have no ideas about the game and should therefore not pass judgement.


"The bigger the ship the slower it moves"

fascinating isn't it? big expensive battleships with lots of shields and armour are very slow. not only that, their guns are too big and they can hit small fast ships. if you get a group of say 5 cheap, small and fast frigates, they can orbit the slow battleship at close range, not get hit, and eventually kill the battleship.

"If you like games that revolve around harvesting and looking at charts and tables by all means EVE is the game for you. If you like excitement and action look elsewhere."

I have played a lot of MMOs in my life. from lineage to wow, from aoe to conan, from eq to anarchy online, and let me tell, while these games were fun, none of them offered ME the excitement the pvp in eve does, and that is for a simple reason that when you die, your ships explodes. there is no respawning. you don't get a new ship. it blew up and you are done. your escape pod was ejected and you can pray whoever killed you dont catches the pod as well, because if they do, you wake up in a clone in a station, and you very, very, very expensive implants are gone.
its this added factor of risk, that comes with the actually losing your ship and having to then get a new one, that makes eve PVP so fascinating. after 4 years of playing I still get an adrenalin rush when I engage someone. something that a battleground in wow simply cannot provide, for there is no risk, only badge grind and respawns.

that said, yes game has lots of problems. It is not new player friendly in that it is to complex to explain in a tutorial. there are corporations out there however which accept new players and teach them how to play.

the "you will never reach the vets" argument is dumb, because of that fact how the skill system works. as there are no classes in eve you basically train everything on one character. like having all the classes in wow leveled on the same character. but you can only play one at a time. even if an older player has levelled all of them, and you have only levelled one, you can both only play one at a time and the fight is still fair, because the fact he has all other classes trained on that character doesn't help him at all.
that's how it works in eve. there is only so much you can train for a certain class of ship, and once you are done, you have to train for another class of ships. so a new player can train one class, say frigates, and be as good at them as 6 year old vets. ans the fact the vet can also fly carriers and battleships and whatnot does not help him, since they are both fighting in frigs.

its in fact the only game I know of, where a few day old newb can kill a vet provided he knows what he is doing

long story short, the game might not be to your licking, but please don't judge, and if you must, please play the game first.
remember, not everyone likes the same thing. eve is a complex science fiction simulator based on strategic fighting. you don't like it? fine, there are a lot of people that find it fascinating.

for those that like reflexes and shooting, CCP is making dust 514.

Posted: Sep 6th 2010 8:53PM smg77 said

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Dust is going to be a massive failure. It's for consoles only and if you stop and really think about it there is no way to marry PI with an fps style game that will make both players happy. I shudder every time I read about Dust because I fear that it will hurt Eve when it tanks.
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Posted: Sep 6th 2010 9:48PM Arsinek said

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Everything I said about the game is true. Like I said if you like the idea of a space ship game that isnt about flying space ships but is more about harvesting resources with lots of tables and graphs EVE is the game for you.

And please if youre going to mindlessly stand up for the game at least play it first. =)
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Posted: Sep 6th 2010 4:14PM Mike Azariah said

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Each addition seems to feed a different aspect of the gaming community. At times I think that CCP is not trying to answer the needs of the current player base but, rather, expand that base to encompass a larger market.

DUST 514 will be for the shootists.

Incarna for the RP crowd

Planetary Involvement has been called Farmville in space

A large diverse crowd gathered in a single universe and on a single 'server' is a heady concept and one I hope they succeed at . . . just NOT at the cost of the original player base. If they turn from us too often, if they leave the toys of yesterday broken on the floor . . . they will be making a mistake.

Or so I see it.

m

Posted: Sep 7th 2010 7:14AM axler said

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"Everything I said about the game is true."

no, read my above reply and you will see where you went wrong.

"Like I said if you like the idea of a space ship game that isnt about flying space ships"

the game is all about flying spaceships. just not they way you think it should be. I spend most of my time in eve with gangs FLYING through lowsec looking for pvp.

"its more about harvesting resources with lots of tables and graphs"

no, I don't harvest resources. to get isk, I buy and sell crap over the market, perhaps do a scam or two. not only that, I would say that the pve aspect of the game, what you call harvesting resources, is undeveloped.

but most people who come into the game simply cant get used to the idea of the sandbox. there is no mission, no path to follow. you want fun you need to get out and do something, which most themepark players aren't used to. so they sit in the station and do nothing. and then they undock and go mining...ffs


"And please if youre going to mindlessly stand up for the game at least play it first. =)"

have been playing the game for 4 years now

you seem to have no idea about the game, or if you have indeed played it, then you only did the trial and never really tried pvp....

Posted: Sep 7th 2010 1:46PM InfinityDevil said

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I think the 2D aspects of Incarna are a great idea: in-station activities that may include card games, other gambling, player shops, and all sorts of diversions. These should debut as Incarna 1.0 with a menu-driven interface.

Following that the activities should be tweaked, refined, expanded where demand is greater, and then if they really must do it, build a 3D interface for them.

I for one would be happy with our little avatar pictures on screen while we voice chat in station and play cards. Do we really need avatars and the many ways they can be done badly and drag down an otherwise fun activity? No of course not.

I do think the idea of a trophy or achievement system is a very interesting one. Even for those who like to roam, non-killing achievements would be good to strive for.

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