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Reader Comments (31)

Posted: Aug 28th 2010 6:07PM (Unverified) said

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10 million? yeah right, dream on

Posted: Aug 28th 2010 6:33PM (Unverified) said

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All these questions were thoroughly discussed this week, why make another article about it? Were beating a dead horse here.

Posted: Aug 28th 2010 6:59PM (Unverified) said

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The fatigue system is another block of design to force the game-play follow a particular lines, and remove other possible ways to play the game.

No one love's powergamers that finish a game in 40 hours, so is easy to remove then.


"They came first for the Powergamers,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Powergamer.
..."

I don't like this, like I don't like all other dumbifications of the genre. But serve a purpose, that is opening the game to more people. FarmVillle-ification.
Is a good thing, Ok?

Posted: Aug 28th 2010 7:19PM TELRU said

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So restricting everyone to one structure of playing and leveling makes FFXIV more accessible to a larger audience?
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Posted: Aug 28th 2010 7:43PM Zetsuei said

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FarmVillle-ification. I hope that term catches on. It's exactly what is happening with every game nowadays.

As for FFXIV, any system that purposely limits a player, in any way, is bad design. Even if it doesn't effect the normal player, I'm still not happy about guildleves. I enjoy combat and action in my MMOs, but when I can only do that every so often and not when I want to, I don't want to play that game.

If they can meet some even ground with guildleves, fix the UI lag and hotkey shortcuts, optimize the client some more, add a recipe book of some kind, and fix fishing, the game will be in great shape. As it is now, it is clearly still in beta, but I'm afraid it will ship with these problems and ultimately hurt it.
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Posted: Aug 28th 2010 8:31PM Abriael said

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I can only applaud Eliot for being one of the few writers out there that has the guts to go out and say that the Fatigue system isn't nearly bad as many people paint it out to be.
Anyway, if there are still some of you that think it's an "horrible and draconian limitation", you can try and read this, http://thisismyjoystick.com/editorials/final-fantasy-xiv-how-the-fatigue-system-really-works/
and understand that it's just a soft cap that can be easily avoided.
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Posted: Aug 28th 2010 9:23PM Celeras said

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We know what it is, Abriael. And it IS just as bad as everybody is saying it is.

If I want to log on and play a certain class, I should be able to log on and play a certain class. Period. Putting a brick wall in my face because 'ive already played my conjurer this week' is as asinine a feature as you can get, regardless of whatever ass-backwards justifications you want to make for it. There are alternatives that could achieve the same result without punishing player choice.
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Posted: Aug 28th 2010 10:01PM tchuks said

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@Steve
I'm just wondering, how long did it take for you to reach the cap for the fatigue system to come into place? I keep reading vague numbers, but how long from start to finish does it actually take (real hours, not 8 hours after so and so starts to do this). I think you can help everyone realize what the fatigue system is really like if you can put up some numbers from your beta experience.

Everyone seems to just be saying "fatigue is too noticeable" or "it's barely noticeable". Give us an actual HOUR or TIME PERIOD that everyone can understand. That way I can say "oh if I play 100 hours per week I'll reach the fatigue limit on all the classes" or "oh if I play 3 hours a day I'll reach the fatigue limit on my class" etc...
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Posted: Aug 29th 2010 12:29AM Abriael said

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@steve: if you juggles classes so little that you actually reach 0% ("a brick in your face"), then you really aren't playing the game in an effective way. *FACT* is that the soft cap can easily be avoided. If you don't want to even try in the name of a illusory "freedom" that never existed (because freedom doesn't exist in 90% of mmorpgs), then the problem is in you, and not in the game.

By the way. If Final Fantasy XIV, that lets you play 18 classes on the same character with a slight limitation on when you do that (and one that can easily avoided, as I already said) is "limiting" you, what do all the 1000 other MMORPGs that limit you to ONE class per character do? Chain and gag you?

"freedom" in most MMORPGs is just a delusion of yours, you're just running on a line set from you by the developers, from level 1 to 80, without the slightest variation. Sorry if I burst a bubble.
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Posted: Aug 29th 2010 12:32AM Abriael said

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@chukz I don't give a time period because it variates a lot depending on how fast you exp. We're taling about several hours before your exp even starts to drop to 90% though.
But the time period really is inconsequential, because as soon as you move to another class your previous one starts to recharge, so by juggling a couple classes of more (including crafters), there's effectovely no time limit. You can go back and forth for all the time your heart desire without ever hitting the slope.
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Posted: Aug 29th 2010 2:48AM tchuks said

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@Abriael
Yeah that's good to hear.

I'm getting this game no matter what. I think as you mentioned in your post, most of the people that think it's a bad idea to force people to level different classes either have only played WoW, or have never played FFXI, or haven't even played FFXIII (the offline game). In FFXIII the multi-class system works awesome, you NEED to use it to be effective, because most of the fights you need to be able to switch from being a medic to a ravager to a synergist to a commando etc... I'm pretty sure the advanced boss battles in FFXIV are going to have this feature implemented.

And if you are among one of those who only has 1 job leveled, you simply won't be progressing anywhere in end-game. It was like that in FFXI, not because S-E made it that way, because the player base made it that way. I look at this as only a preparation for new players to understand what it's like to play a MMO like Final Fantasy. It's not a walk in the park. It's not a "i only want to DPS" type of game. The game is built on the fact that you can instantly change jobs on the fly, this WILL be implemented in the boss fights and end-game content, you can bet on it.

If FFXIII is anything to go by, you'll also need to use this for regular mob fights. I don't only mean situations where the tank dies and you have to change to tank to back him up. I mean situations where everyone is alive and topped off on HP and you switch to a ravager to deal more damage and try to be more effective, then switch to healer (medic) when the time calls. This makes killing mobs much faster (10 seconds instead of 30 seconds) and is NECESSARY (not optional) for big boss fights.

I think the majority of the people don't understand how advanced of a system it is, and what their big plans are for the game. If they think it's another "ok this is the boss, at 90% he will do this, at 80% he will do that..." they will be wrong. As in FFXI, the boss special moves are random and the same boss can turn out to be twice as hard just because he did different moves in different order. In FFXIV, this will be amplified by the fact that you now not only focus on 1 type of ability, you can heal/dps/tank in one fight. No other game allows you this freedom, and they will use it to make the game harder.
I welcome this.
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Posted: Aug 29th 2010 8:34AM Celeras said

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@chukz

In beta 3, it took my just over an hour to get surplus. They have since come out and said it wasn't balanced correctly and is supposed to be "an average" session of 8 hours. In a week.

@Abriael

Is that REALLY your justification, that if I chose to level one class that much I'm 'playing the game wrong'? Wow.. just wow. And what happens to your brilliant logic when I AM leveling a secondary class? What happens when I'm mere moments away from a milestone, say a signature ability or maybe even a level that gets the next mission. Oops! I hit the wall.. better luck next week when the threshold fully resets? Or wait 7 hours for the fatigue 'curve' to decrease and try to grind it out THROUGH surplus if I'm *that* desperate?

There is no defense for the system, the fact that you would even try to white-knight this is laughable.
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Posted: Aug 29th 2010 1:06PM Addfwyn said

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@Steve

Actually Steve, if you are trying to play only one class, you ARE playing the game wrong. If you tried that in say...FFXI, you'd be laughed out of parties if you were like a level 50 WHM and nothing else. Because you'd be severly gimped. Yes you CAN do it, but you shouldn't.

It'd be like playing WoW without any talents. Sure you can do it, but you're gimping yourself. How dare Blizzard FORCE you to use talents, right?

As far as the rest, I think if you're really playing 8 hours in one sitting as one class without doing anything else, you probably have other problems and should be taking a break from playing video games anyway. I can't think of an MMO where I did nothing but solid grinding for an entire week straight.
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Posted: Aug 29th 2010 9:58PM Celeras said

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@Dymphna

8 hours in a sitting? Try 8 hours in a week.. barely over an hour a day. I'm sorry if you feel that is 'too long' to be playing a videogame. If you DON'T play that much, I would question your motivations for paying a monthly fee and see it as a waste of money. Though regardless, I certainly wouldn't call you out for it since its your money/life and you're entitled to do what you want. Ironic that you can't extend the same courtesy.

And as I've said several times, this has nothing to do with 'playing a class to much' or 'gimping your character'.. as its quite possible to hit the same limitations WHILE leveling secondary classes.
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Posted: Aug 28th 2010 7:39PM (Unverified) said

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Well in my eye's like said above it's done in all games, but the player always find ways around them. I'am goin to play FFXIV its goin to have a ruff start and over the years it might turn into a GEM like FFXI, also players will find ways to defy the dev's and to get pass whatever blockaid they put up. (if its possible ) So iam goin to sit back and enjoy this next round, I have been a FFXI player for almost 7 years and I done alot in that game and their is still more to do but I'am tired of the outdated graphics and I want a refresh look, and go through the hurdles that the dev will set in our path's. The game will change over time just like FFXI and from my experiance with FFXI it turned out to be a great game, it might happen faster with ffxiv the dev's have learned things from their last MMO its just a matter of them using that knowledge before and if the game plunges. ( which I highly dought that would happen they have been working on this since 2005ish or before that date. I know they have content and I know they will tweak their system only the crazy ones that play 24 hours a day will notice it.) Anyhow next week is OB I was in B3 so I'am pretty sure I will get my key and I'am goin to play my heart out but I know my limit's I know when its time to make a bowel movement I know when to take breaks and stretch, I know when its time to feed my son breakfast lunch and dinner and I know when to go clean up whatever mess I have laying around, soooo when I'am doing anyone of them things my characters fatigue or whatever will be resetting so if i play right I wont have to wait that week long for it to reset and it will do it on its own specially when I sleep.

Posted: Aug 28th 2010 7:58PM (Unverified) said

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@Telru:
Yes, removing all the freedom helps opening to more people. Since more options can confuse new people, removing all options but one give a clear linear path that new people can follow.
If you nerf everything but one way of playing, it make everything much more simple for everyone. If there's only one way to play, there's only one way that need to be explained.

Posted: Aug 28th 2010 8:03PM archipelagos said

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Thanks Alex for all the fun illustrations! It's been great to see them. Good luck with whatever it is that you're taking on.

Posted: Aug 28th 2010 8:06PM DevilSei said

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Woo, featured in the article!

Anyways, I can understand the drop in price seems great, but if you find out you aren't all that into FF 14, the 20-25+ its going to cost to subscribe to both games simply won't be as appealing as the 15$ for the game you know you love, or in 14s case, 12-15+ to play the newer game because 11 just didn't click because everyone is so much higher or something.

Personally, I say either include a code in all purchases of 14 that lets you have a reduced sub for 11, or just lower the sub price on its own. This idea just seems to target players currently in 11 to get 14, and stay subscribed to both.

Posted: Aug 29th 2010 1:51AM SwobyJ said

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For every article repeating and explaining a grievence people have with FFXIV... an opportunity to write an article on Rift:Planes of Telara and The Secret World flies away (especially Rift now that more info is out all the time). ....sigh


The power of an IP I guess.

Posted: Aug 29th 2010 2:20AM Dranaerys said

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I have a sneaking suspicion that Rift will do a good deal better than FF14, particularly after people run FF14 on their PCs and QQ because the performance is terrible.
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