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Reader Comments (64)

Posted: Aug 26th 2010 7:07PM DevilSei said

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Time or value based, it doesn't matter, not to me at least. Its a way to force people to conform to a path the developers lay out, and it still means I'll be forced to play as classes I have no interest in, which means I'll be wasting time, plain and simple.

Posted: Aug 26th 2010 7:14PM (Unverified) said

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You can always pay $3 a month and have 1 alt that can level while your main is resting... on top of the $15 subscription.

Yea, that makes it all better...
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Posted: Aug 26th 2010 7:15PM Abriael said

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EVERY single mmorpg out there has systems in place that "foce" people to conform to a path the developers laid out.

If there's only one class that you're interested in the game, then obviously the game isn't for you, not because of the fatigue system, but because if you level up a single class you're be as gimped as a Final Fantasy XI player without a subjob. With lower physical stats than your peer, lacking utility abilities and shunned by the rest of the community.

In any case, for a full explanation of how the system works corroborated by actual beta experience (and not just the usual pure hearsay) you can go here:
http://thisismyjoystick.com/editorials/final-fantasy-xiv-how-the-fatigue-system-really-works/
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Posted: Aug 26th 2010 7:27PM DevilSei said

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unsurprisingly abrial, you missed the point.

If its based on the amount of XP you gain, then it limits you to how much you can actually earn, lets say the developers want no-one to hit the cap of one class in less than 2 months, so they'll have the cut-off rate adjusted to force you to level at a pace suiting that.

As for the class comment, wherever did I say I wanted to focus on one class completely? Besides, the fact that multiple classes per character isn't out of the ordinary in any Final Fantasy game, so obviously the game wouldn't be suited to people who dont like that. I never said I did. I only said it forces me to play as classes I wouldn't be interested in. I'd gladly switch classes when I feel like it though.

Or, lets think of it as this. You're a tank class, you've already grinded out the maximum xp possible, but then your friends call you up because their tanking skills aren't high enough, or they just aren't good tanks, and ask you to tank. What will you do then? Tell them no because you get jack squat out of it, or yes and gain even more fatigue?
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Posted: Aug 26th 2010 7:41PM Abriael said

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@devilsei
I understand what you mean, but see it this way:
1: when your friends call you, if you're on gladiator, it means that you're not yet at 0% (otherwise you'd not be on gladiator), so you still can get exp out of the session
2: if you're not on gladiator, it means that you've been doing something else. Doing something else "recharges" your gladiator's fatigue, so that you'll probably have at least some left to get something out of the session again.

This is exactly the most crucial point. If you're ok with switching classes, your fatigue will be continuously recharging, and as such (exactly like I and many others witnessed in beta), you will never be bothered by fatigue.

Now I completely agree that the system needs tweaking (hell I would just prefer a simpler rested exp system personally), and in fact they are tweaking it. Hopefully they'll do like many (me included) suggested, putting a minimum limit past which the percentage doesn't decrease anymore, so that whatever the case you're still earning something.

But yeah, in the end if you level up more classes than one, this system won't really bother you, unless they go completely against what they said and make it more restrictive instead of more lax as they promised.
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Posted: Aug 26th 2010 8:09PM Its Utakata stupid said

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If that's true Papinka, that's even more horrible then the fatigue mechanic itself. And it gets well into Cryptics double dippin' nickle and diming policies that made STO and CO untattractive to many of us. If I'm going pay for a sub based game, the hell I am going to pay an additional monthly MT to get around one of it's asinine leveling mechanics.
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Posted: Aug 26th 2010 8:15PM Abriael said

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@Utakata Buying alts is completely useless, unless you want to dock some other people on your own account or you REEALLY want to play a different race. You can play all the 18 classes on your main character at the same time, so why would you?
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Posted: Aug 27th 2010 1:13AM Its Utakata stupid said

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For RP reasons Abriael, I would like to roll a small army of Lalafells (like I've rolled an small army of Gnomes is WoW), with a couple of Miqo'te's thrown in for good measure. But if I have to pay $3 USD's per month for that priviledge per toon, then Square Enix knows where they can shove their game and sideways.
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Posted: Aug 27th 2010 1:23AM DevilSei said

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Uta... I actually forgot about the "extra cost per character" thing amidst all of this...!

God... at least 11 charged a buck or so... 3 is just too much... and rather unfair. Just because one character can be multiple classes, doesn't mean I wouldn't want to make a character for appearance sake. If I play a healer, they generally tend to be female characters. Casters? it depends on what race can be them. Or in the case of melee, I tend to go with males since the weapons don't shrink to obscenely small sizes, and the armor looks appropriate.

Hell, my favorite healing character is my Undead (most non-rotten looking undead you'll ever see) female, who specializes in both engineering and tailoring. Odd combination, but its a quirk. I don't rp hard-core, but I do some light bits as a joke. And in her case, she loves to knit you a sweater before she broils you with a bomb, make sure everything is in one nice package.
Just like my male Belfadin flirts with almost every female, and can be rather selfish and vain.

No fun in having a character that just switches from the Bulwark of Azinoth and a giant one-handed sword tanking massive dragons, to just sitting in the back lines healing, then hiding in the shadows while a pet attacks for dps...
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Posted: Aug 26th 2010 7:10PM Tsuyin said

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Reward system>punishment system
Plain and simple.

Posted: Aug 26th 2010 7:26PM Audacious said

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This.

I've seen the argument that the game's mixing and matching of class abilities is the intended reason for this change and thus a subtle way of nudging you towards leveling other classes.

Why not increase the experience gains on other classes after spending oh so much time on one class instead?

That all being said, we still don't know how quickly fatigue decays or if it decays at all for your physical (hard stats like Hit Points, Dexterity, etc.) level. If the system has nothing but punishments and no rewards no one will be happy about it.
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Posted: Aug 26th 2010 7:18PM Syesta said

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If the XP/Skill wasn't decreasing to 0%, but rather to 50%
All they'd have to do is call it a weekly xp bonus (a la rested xp) and no one would care. There's really little dividing this from the systems implemented in several other MMOs.

Anyways, I continue to look forward to this beta stage and release.
If they need to adjust this during the beta, they will. People will try to break the system now that the cat is most undoubtedly out of the bag.

Posted: Aug 26th 2010 7:25PM EdwardBurch said

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Yeah. (To no one in particular)

During beta 3, I had never accumulated this fatigue crap until the fourth day of 4-hour gaming sessions. I was switching between gathering and melee a lot, when I decided to go all-pugilist for a long time. Then all of the sudden, BOOM surplus. I asked someone what it was, to which they replied "Oh just go level a gathering prof it'll go away. I hit up 3 mining locations, ranked-up, And lo! It did. I really don't think this will effect anyone other than the "Must race to the end of the game beat it show my epeen then complain about content" people.

Posted: Aug 26th 2010 7:26PM Celestian said

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Won't bother playing this game. It'll just be another Eastern grinder, FFXI was no different.

I thought maybe it would be different but looking at their focus on items such as this has pretty much told me the direction they are going with this game.

Even dog trainers know positive reinforcement is a much better method.

Posted: Aug 26th 2010 8:11PM (Unverified) said

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Now I'm curious. I wonder how dogs are trained in Japan?
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Posted: Aug 26th 2010 7:29PM Tizmah said

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But it's still forcing you to go do something else. It likes the devs go, "Ok, ok, enough of that. Go do something else now." "But but..I'm having fun doing this..." "WE DONT CARE, SCRAM. GO CRAFT." "Ok... :( "

Posted: Aug 26th 2010 7:30PM Wensbane said

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Yet another perfect example of an MMO development studio trying its best to shoot itself, right in the foot.

It's not like I had any interest in this game anyway, but still, one has to wonder why they can't, for ONCE, just "go with what works"...

Posted: Aug 26th 2010 7:34PM Muu said

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"limiting factors are not time-based but value-based"

This will likely end up making the penalty much worse, not better, than Komoto intended. People reaching the level cap in 11 didn't come only as a result of those w/ no lives playing the game, but also because people were leveling much more effectively than the devs thought they could. If the devs' idea of leveling will last people 8hrs of leveling at their intended exp pace, it'll likely take 4 to accomplish, unless you were constantly grouped with a bunch of incompetent players.

It'd be great if I was wrong, but I'll let someone else spend their $50/$75 to find out.

Posted: Aug 26th 2010 7:44PM Abriael said

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It's not really that the players were leveling much more actively than expected. It's that players were granted a ton less experience than intended. In the first 2-3 dats of this beta phase you literally went up 10 levels with 3 guildleves. This was putting them much further on the fatigue scale than expected.
In fact people that for one reason or another didn't play during those days, didn't really have problems with fatigue.

In the end, the fatigue system is nothing else than numbers and percentages. That means that it can be rebalanced relatively easy and fast if needed.
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Posted: Aug 26th 2010 7:49PM Muu said

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That's great. Do let me know in a month how it really turned out.

And oh yeah, numbers can be easily adjusted by an ordinary development team; I've played 11 and know much better than to be optimistic (took them till this June to bring up my main job from the 'laughing stock from everything else' status).
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