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Posted: Aug 23rd 2010 6:36PM Joystiq Login Bugs SUCK said

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"The other day, a group of us in the Massively office watched the latest TERA demo video in a sort of horrified awe as the skimpily clad character ran with her fanny flying in the wind"

Hate to say this Massively writers but the word Fanny does not mean what you think is does in some of the other English speaking countries of the world. For a woman to be running around with her front-bottom flying in the wind is more of a scream to us that when one of you yanks falling on it.

Posted: Aug 24th 2010 6:18AM (Unverified) said

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First of all I must say, I am a woman and personally do not have a problem with an oversexulisation in video games, though it does make me chuckle quite often.

Honestly I think we have to seperate eastern and western games when it comes to the point of sexuality matters. The Eastern ideal of men and women are completely different to the ones in the west.

Where the east prefers their women, tiny, thin, skinny, pale, big eyes and boobs and these innocent looks, the western market is more for ... well "normal" shaped women but don't mind a good rack.... wheter it is in the front or the back.

Same goes for the males. In alot of eastern games you see these ... what I want to call "metro" guys. Very feminin faces, fancy hair, eyeliner up to the ear and rather small chested. Granted, the last point variies from game to game. In the western market we portrait men more "manly". Though in this manlyness we do make (as pointe out before) two kinds of men. The very manly man, with broad chests, short hair, beards, ripped chests and sometimes hard militaristic looks on one hand, and on the other the "normal" man. More skinny, but still with harder features in the face...etc...

For Example Tera and Aion... They are smashed with spectacular lightning. Everything is cute and fancy and nice and pretty. You see boobs and legs and butts

On the other hand, Guild Wars, AoC, Warhammer and all the other western games look alot tougher. Sure you can add the fancy lightning, but still the character does look like it actually HAS a character.

To come to an end I want to mention one thing I think about quite often. I personally believe that Developers do think more from a male perspective. The female gamer audience is still 'rather' small comared to the men playing games. As it was clearly visible at the gamescom, the games they make for women, are funky (and absolutely boring) console games. I believe they don't even consider they could offend their female players with a portrait of a half naked woman, sticking her butt right into the camera....

Posted: Aug 23rd 2010 6:48PM cray said

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Problem here is gaming industry hasn't figured out how to be sexy without resorting to barely dressed a female.

It's much harder to make something look sexy with fully clothed female, so some companies just don't bother thinking too deeply about it.

Posted: Aug 23rd 2010 6:51PM (Unverified) said

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Honestly, all people want is absurdly good armor customization. They hide it underneath the equality crusade, but seriously, nobody would be caring if you could change your armor to reveal/conceal like a sleep-number mattress.

Posted: Aug 23rd 2010 11:24PM Its Utakata stupid said

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That doesn't actually float my boat. Society where equality is respected and free of ignorant trolls does. Just saying...

Posted: Aug 23rd 2010 11:40PM (Unverified) said

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"...while female armor isn't even big enough to protect one's dignity, never mind one's internal organs."

...Best Internet Quote of the Day...

Posted: Aug 23rd 2010 11:51PM Its Utakata stupid said

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I think a lot of great and informed points have been made. and there's not much I can add, but....

...other than, I have this same issue with Anime culture when if comes to fan service/ecchi material. Some of which makes Tera look like a chasity belt. And oft at the expense of females. My question and criticism has always been, "Is this really needed?" Many of the stories told hold up well without that crap....so it does become a really annoyance and needlessly degrading to many strong female characters - which is why I'm into manga/anime in the first place.

Perhaps it's something do with Dan Savage of Savage Love's claim, all men are into porn. And most developers and anime artists are male. But I would counter, do men really need porn in every medium they play or read or watch? It would be very distracting IMO if there was...not only for most males, but most likely for females as well. There is a place for it.

Perhaps devs at Tera or whatever MMO outfit, could come up with a porn themed fanatasy game....if they really think men need to get their rocks off that much. (Not sure why anyone hasn't thought of that before, actually.) But...just leave the rest of the games alone. Thankx.

Posted: Aug 24th 2010 2:45AM (Unverified) said

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It's not really that men are into porn that much, as I don't think they'd watch anime just to fap. Its because men have a shorter attention span than women, and they pay attention more if it has violence in it or if it has fanservice in it.
Reply

Posted: Aug 24th 2010 1:45AM (Unverified) said

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So I'm a guy, and I want my avatar to be good looking. For me, that means I usually roll female toons because I think they're more visually appealing. What that doesn't mean is that I have them all running around in band-aids and a bit of floss. I want my toons to look GOOD, and for me "good" doesn't automatically mean "skimpy outfit."

I think a useful test of whether a game is "over-sexualized" is to ask yourself whether you'd be embarrassed (or at least a bit uncomfortable) to be seen playing it. What if it's your sister/mother/girlfriend/wife who's watching? Would you be embarrassed then? If not, then the game probably isn't over-sexualized. If you're gettin' a little red in the face, then it probably is.

When I'm playing my warrior in GuildWars I don't look furtively over my shoulder every few seconds, worried that my girlfriend might see me. My warrior looks just like a warrior should, heavily armed and armored.

From what I've seen so far, TERA wouldn't pass the embarrassment test. And that's sad, because the game looks good. It looks solid. And I'm really looking forward to getting a chance to play it. But I'm also disappointed that the developers of TERA feel they need to push the whole sex angle so completely and so obviously to such extremes just to sell a few more copies of their game. In a sense it shows a lack of faith in their product.

Posted: Aug 24th 2010 2:30AM (Unverified) said

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I agree with some of the comments here regarding the authors blatant double-standards for sex and violence. Its ok that majority of games, both online and offline, allow you to hack/shoot away at every thing that has a face with blood and gore. But when it's the near presentation of sex and nudity people become horrified and start championing their morals.
And that's a laugh to see everytime. Maybe you guys should try one about violence next time and lets see how people react.

Posted: Aug 24th 2010 5:09AM Jack Pipsam said

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I think people need to put the sexy stuff down abit, like for example I am SICK of WAR player who have bikini girls running around everywere!
man I miss MXO

Posted: Aug 24th 2010 7:37AM (Unverified) said

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Oversexualsation can indeed be irritating, but it doesn't make me wanna kill people for making games, movies or any media that have that. I don't care about it, as long as the rest is enjoyable.
And I don't think TERA takes anything too far, it's pretty well inside the usual borders of what's usually shown.
Now, they also have some male clothes that show off their ripped chests:
http://tera-online.cc/uploads/gallery/main/55/castanic_m_h01a.jpg
Of course it's not enough to say it's equal, but it's a step on the way.
And there's female robes that covers most stuff:
http://tera-online.cc/uploads/gallery/main/59/highelf_f_r16.jpg
The skin showing is just design, and I think it's very pretty.

Posted: Aug 24th 2010 9:27AM ChongShin said

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I just watched the video and don't mind it so much. The guy makes a very good point: You spend A LOT of time looking at the back of your character, so it may as well look good.

While the sexy stuff is fine I also hope that there are classy clothing options for that race. Sometimes less clothing does not necessarily equate to a sexier appearance.

Posted: Aug 24th 2010 9:40AM mysecretid said

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Many good points made in this thread -- and many colossally stupid ones.

To answer the question directly, Are MMOs over-sexualized?

In my opinion, no. Games in general aren't so much sexy or sexualized as they are prurient.

Even the M-Rated games, sadly, are more like some pre-teen boy's idea of what is sexy (Bewbz! Hurr Hurr Hurr Hurr!) than something a mature mind (regardless of age) could approve of ...

The /only/ game I can think of where sex and sexuality was handled well wasn't even an MMORPG -- it was the first Mass Effect.

((POSSIBLE SPOILER!!!))

Toward the end of the game, your character could make love to the character you had grown closest to (or you had developed the most desire for) during the story.

There was a belief that the characters might not make it through the final mission, so this "last chance for romance" had a kind of poignancy to it.

The "sex scene" was a pre-rendered cutscene in a darkened room. All you really saw in terms of "sexuality" was two characters' individual bare butts for maybe five seconds, total. This was /not/ an explicit scene at all,

Even for an M-Rated game, it was all pretty subdued ...

... but the reactionary media went absolutely apeshit over it anyway.

((END SPOIILER))

Headlines screamed about the explicit sex scene (even though there wasn't one) and TV wonks jabbered on about how "terrible" the scene was, even though their comments made it clear they'd never seen it.

Flash forward to Mass Effect 2: Now all character intimacy is demonstrated pretty much fully clothed, boots and all, and looks absolutely bizarre thereby.

So, I'm of the opinion that game companies will continue to give so-called "sexuality" that looks like it was designed by a ten-year old boy (Bewbz!!!) because the self-appointed censors seem to overlook that.

Stupidity and prurience seem to get a pass -- but as soon as anyone tries to create Mature-rated content for mature-minded players, the hammer falls.

Outcry runs the risk of getting a game re-rated as "Adults Only" which is a financial death sentence as many major outlets refuse to carry AO games (e.g. Wal-Mart).

So, yeah. I'm of the opinion that we're going to be stuck with the same kind of "immature mature content" we've always had -- at least until someone finds a way to do mature-minded content which sells insane amounts.

Once Big Big Money comes around, the publishers will stand up to the critics.

Only my opinions ...



Posted: Aug 24th 2010 8:58PM (Unverified) said

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Everyone keeps talking about castanics, completely missing the fact that they are, in fact, demons. They have massive lore to back up their flamboyant attitude, appearance just go with that.

So, if we take a look at another races ingame, what have we?

Humans: http://tera-online.cc/uploads/gallery/main/64/human_f_h12.jpg (heavy) - thats for those who complain on a lack of full-body armor. I especially adore human female robes, because frankly - most of it`s so cool, I`d wear it everyday. Yes, in real life. Take a look: http://tera-online.cc/gallery/renders/rases/human-female/human-fr/. If you find it offensive, it`s still summer in Moscow, so please don`t come or you`ll have a heart attack every five minutes.

Then amani: http://tera-online.cc/uploads/gallery/main/43/aman_f_h12.jpg - that`s a heavy armor. What you may think of as skin visible in lights and robes is actually hard scale, because those are lizard race, descendants of dragons. (And E.T. from my childhood favourite movie was running around nakkid, how did they even allow it! Ah, well.)

Baraka, completely sexless by the way, they do not have gender at all. Any armor reveals just their heads and hands, and those are apparently stone or some kind of rock-solid material (no lore for that yet).

But sure, game is so oversexualized no one could possibly play it. Frankly, I`m all for M-rating TERA because it means I won`t have underaged players grating on my nerves in dungeon groups etc. So by all means keep up your good work with those articles.

Cheers.

Posted: Aug 25th 2010 2:30AM (Unverified) said

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@nezhit
I find the pic of the human female wearing plate mail pretty ironic. The only place she's showing any skin is right over her heart. How's that for practicality?

Anyway, my opinion on the sexuality thing is that it's fine to allow it. If people want to wear skimpy clothing, that's their prerogative, as it is IRL. I start raising eyebrows when the appearance of the armor doesn't match up with its defense rating. Of course, I've always been of the opinion that realism is best, and there are plenty of other things in MMORPGs that I could complain about.

What really does annoy me, however, is when players are not given the choice to wear 'classier' armor, which seems to be the case for TERA's female castanics. It is for precisely this reason that I will not be playing a castanic when I get my hands on TERA -- otherwise, the race seems quite appealing to me.

Mmm...ok, to summarize:
Bewbz = OK
Choice = GOOD
No choice = BAD

Posted: Aug 25th 2010 2:55AM (Unverified) said

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@Animalsienna
She is not even human - only humanoid, how come you be sure that`s where her heart is? :)
And we`ve been talking about overdoing it, right? So take Lineage2 - coming 7 years this autumn I believe - an old and quite popular game. I have never heard anyone saying it was over the top in its textures, soo.... please compare the above screenshot with say that one: http://www.kldn.net/storage/l2/l2darkelf.jpg - that`s a heavy armor too. A bit too late to accuse TERA of oversexualization, right?

Oh, and I`m definitely rolling a castanic in that game. I love it when people start judging me by appearance. It gives a nice headstart.

Posted: Aug 26th 2010 1:21PM (Unverified) said

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Old topic is old. This topic has been brought up on nearly every MMO forum ad naseum and it always leads to page after page of heated argument with nothing new brought to the table after the first 5-6 replies.

It's a video game. If you don't like it or it offends your sensibilities then don't play it (and/or prevent your childrent from playing it). It goes no further than that.

Posted: Aug 26th 2010 5:16PM NeverDeath said

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Bottom line: People are babies. This is (still, until the majority of the populace becomes too stupid and self-righteous for it to remain so) a free market, and if you want something a company is selling, then you'll buy it and if you don't, you won't.

The buck stops there, there really isn't any reason for anyone to be complaining about how "sexualized" a game is or is not, because you don't HAVE to play it. Many things (in America at least) are becoming socialist (aka the footpath to communism) as of late, but the free market is still there, allowing people of varying tastes to be individual and discerning as consumers. I like TERA's art style. It's like a hybrid of the freshness of certain Asian design which still manages to keep mindful to what people in the west typically find appealing in their fantasy fare. A part of this is the fantasy vixen, which feminist or not, puritan or not, is an immortalized icon that isn't going away any time soon.

Everyone has an opinion. Nothing special about those. The fact however, is that the only thing wrong with anything that doesn't cause a person physical pain is that it conflicts with their own personal ideals or feelings, which is a good thing in my opinion. It means the fascists haven't won. People pretend that they want the freedom of choice, to not be "subjected" to what they perceive as "sexuality" in a video game, but it's a fallacious argument because they aren't forced to participate in the game in the first place. They just want to pee in someone else's pool, and it's disgusting and tyrannical in the same way that it is for a Christian to come into a gay bar screaming that its patrons are all reprobates and deserve to suffer and die in a lake of fire; Mind your own business, it's not hurting anyone and nobody forced you to walk into the gay bar.

Posted: Oct 28th 2010 1:28PM (Unverified) said

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Tera's demo actually wasn't anything bad or special in terms of female characters running around in skimpy clothing. Aion had some pretty skimpy clothing, a breast slider, and bouncing melons. I think that even though skimpy the outfit designs still look wonderful in themselves no matter how skimpy or revealing they are.

I'm using aion because that is what i am playing now. Aion at higher levels had a lot of sexual things in it. And honestly i dont mind. If you are a girl and want to play aion or tera then think of just making your character an ugly fat broad instead of a really sexy character that a G.I.R.L would make (Guy In Real Life). So honestly don't bitch at how sexy things are. And if you are a girl bitching about how sexy things are maybe you are just jealous a pixel is way hotter then you are... thats not to take offense at annyone. Im just saying that girls in an MMO should be hot they need to be to make a game more glamorous.

Tell me, if you watched the Tera demo and it had fat old skanky women would people still say "hey that game looks great im gunna play a Popori female!" no they wouldnt they would look at how ugly the characters look and say no im not going to play that because they only have fat skanky women.

So like i said before if you are going to make a female avatar but you dont want giant melons or DD then just dont make her with giant breasts get the clothes that dont look skanky, Like in aion you can change the stats from one article of clothing to another. So that way you can have the nice conservative clothing and we can all live happily under the same server.

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