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Reader Comments (15)

Posted: Aug 22nd 2010 6:34PM Deadalon said

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All games have lag... Have you tried AOC ? 10K regulare spikes - not for all .. but for some and thats enough.

Posted: Aug 23rd 2010 12:21AM (Unverified) said

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The problem comes from the fact that EVE players hold CCP to a much higher standard than any other company. I mean really really hold them to a higher standard. Not just about the quality either, things like communication from CCP to players is beyond anything you find at other studios yet the community wants more and better. Part of if is that since CCP has done better, the community just expects CCP to continue it. What other MMO game development studio do you know that shares details such as server specifications, CPU loads, server architecture, actual total number of paying subscribers, in house tools such as the thin client (and all the other tools they have told us about), exact breakdowns of how many people are working on what teams for EVE, I mean really the list goes on. CCP has always been far more open than any other MMO studio, hell basically every game studio except some indie guys.

A lot of the ranting/crying/and what not from players is not just "we hate you CCP fix your shit", a lot of it is "we want this fixed because we love this game." So it's not all bad, I just wish more people would actually read the dev blogs and at least try and keep up-to-date with things before bitching on the forums.

That all being said, I have loved these dev blogs, can't wait for the ones this week, and will continue to adore CCP for being who they are.
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Posted: Aug 22nd 2010 8:36PM Innocentte said

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I read the Dev Blogs, and all I can say it :

"What a smoking load !"

* Game is running fine.
* New expansion is pushed out.
* Game goes to crap.

Believe me, they know EXACTLY what is causing the problem. The reason that they won't own up to it is that they don't want to expose the underlying architecture changes that now cripple the system. And perhaps risk offending the person or persons responsible for it.

So, they push out these Blogs that contain no new information; all the stuff said has been known for years. Sheesh.

Time for Users and Managers both to wake up and get a grip, before it is to late.

Man Up to the mistake and do what is required to fix it.
No matter how painful.

Posted: Aug 22nd 2010 8:56PM Joshua Przygocki said

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"Believe me, they know EXACTLY what is causing the problem. The reason that they won't own up to it is that they don't want to expose the underlying architecture changes that now cripple the system. And perhaps risk offending the person or persons responsible for it."

Did you get fired from CCP or something?

Maybe it's cause you were the person who caused the initial lag problem?

:p
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Posted: Aug 22nd 2010 10:27PM (Unverified) said

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You've obviously never worked on a big software project. Everything they said made sense to me - your critical code path changes based on both external factors and design changes.

Rolling back Dominion might have helped, but if your critical code paths aren't scaling right you'll eventually hit the same problems. What they're doing is going back and working on these critical paths to make them more optimized.

Lag has gotten much better since Dominion. Only thing that really bugs me is module cycling, minor grid loading issues (for the bigger fights), and brackets - most issues that have been around for some time.

But don't listen to the experienced people working on what is literally the most open MMO in terms of dev communication, hold your breath until your face turn blue - that seems to work well. Also, complain more about CCP not putting all their asset artists and UI/mission scripters on fixing lag - I hear that's popular on eve-o forums as well. (E.G. Drop all Developers on Incarna to FIX LAG derp derp)

For me, I got a system to defend as D2- has over 800 in local. BFF
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Posted: Aug 22nd 2010 9:38PM Controlled Chaos said

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It's well and good that they're explaining how these things gets fixed and that they are working on them, but I actually feel a little bad that they really think this is going to make things any better.

I mean, sure, they're offering up some knowledge, but people don't really want knowledge. They want a problem fixed that most thing is long overdue for fixing. Posting some dev blogs isn't going to extend the patience of their many subscribers for the simple fact that they're paying a decent amount each month to be able to play the game as it was meant to be. People just aren't patient when it comes to their entertainment and I'd have to agree that it's been a problem for a long while.

Knowing is one thing, but wanting things to work better is an entirely reasonable demand.

Posted: Aug 23rd 2010 12:46AM (Unverified) said

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Well its understandable wanting lag to be gone. But epexcting it to just up and vanish no matter what is done, well its not going to happen ever. I imagine it will continue to get better. But I fully never expect it to be gone. I never expect large scale 1k or even 500 ship battles to be lag free.

It's something NO other game can do and what makes us think CCP can make it happen.. Even if they have done it in the past, as the game evolves to meet the current market there is always the chance of it breaking permently.
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Posted: Aug 23rd 2010 1:20AM Controlled Chaos said

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@Tom316

Agreed completely. I mostly just mean that while some fans will be reasonable about it, others will be readying their torches and pitchforks. CCP is doing something far different than anyone else by making one massive server instead of shards. There's bound to be some issues.

There's just going to be those who don't want to have to deal with it and, since it has been a problem for a while now, veterans and new folks alike are going to be asking for a little more than 'we're working on it'.
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Posted: Aug 23rd 2010 4:44AM Addfwyn said

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I played EVE for a while and I absolutely hated most of it, but I do have to say one of the things I very rarely had a problem with in the game was lag. Maybe around some of the major trade hubs, but 90% of the time the game ran very smoothly.

The game has a plethora of problems, but I never found lag to be one of them, at least not in comparison to what many other major games have to go through.

Posted: Aug 23rd 2010 7:52AM Benicio said

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Well in that case;

It's ok CCP, some guy who pottered around hisec for a couple of weeks and wonders why he hated it says there's no lag issues.

Guess the rest of us who actually play the game to its fullest dont know what we're complaining about.
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Posted: Aug 23rd 2010 8:18AM Addfwyn said

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I played in low-sec, nullsec, I did pvp, larger fleet battles, smaller piracy, mining (god help me), trading, and manufacturing. I'd say I did a fair percent of what the game had to offer. I never had significant lag in any of those activities except around some of the larger trading hubs.

But hey, it's fun to just assume stuff about people you know nothing about, right?
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Posted: Aug 23rd 2010 9:42AM DeadlyAccurate said

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Those of us who don't engage in large-scale fleet battles probably never notice a lot of significant lag. This is something different than just hanging around in Jita.
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Posted: Aug 23rd 2010 5:29AM halfcaptain said

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The lag debate isn't one I often weigh in on, since it usually gets so nasty, but this has got to be one of the more sober, comprehensive looks at the problem. Good on you, Mr. Drain.

Posted: Aug 23rd 2010 8:58AM Aganazer said

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For the vast majority of players in high sec out missioning, mining, and trading, lag is not an issue at all. Sure, there might be the occasional 1 second delay when you turn in a mission or fit a module, but nothing even close to game breaking.

It seems to me that the serious game-breaking lag only effects a minority of players for brief periods of time. Granted, it happens at a very critical time (during a fleet battle) making it serious business.

I'm not saying they shouldn't fix it and make it a high priority. What I am saying is that lag isn't as game breaking as some make it out to be. People that might be considering whether or not to try EVE should not be turned off by the reports of lag because it really doesn't effect most of the game's activities. Its not like EVE is a game of fleet battles. EVE is a game of many things and it just so happens that one activity out of dozens is impacted by lag.

Posted: Aug 24th 2010 2:33AM (Unverified) said

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I just want to add that this is a classic case of Amdhal's Law and its many corollaries. Basically software and hardware design is all about making the common case fast. As Computer Scientists look at the problem we try to make the most scalable solution, which we want to always be a linear algorithm.

Fleet battles which exceed system concurrent user maximums is not a the common case by far (albeit the most fun) and the designs just haven't been optimized to their fullest. CCP a while back invented a stackless I/O algorithm which really reduced the CPU loads across all compute nodes, which one could argue is the most common case for noob and veteran alike. Now you can have 800+ in Jita because of that genius work. Now the profile of common case has shifted as Amdal's Law observes. So optimizing the other areas of Eve requires more efforts and more developer resources.

I for one can appreciate the desire to re architect old software code with up to date requirements, but based on what CCP has cooked up so far they have the right idea to distribute more work load and break up / off-load large computation tasks.

Now is the time to sit back and appreciate the fact that CCP has the PCU record, the user base is still growing, and we all play in one universe. No other MMO can or wants to attempt that. Beat that WoW.

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