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Reader Comments (18)

Posted: Aug 19th 2010 3:40PM (Unverified) said

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Hahahahhah He said Kings' Quest..... and I'd like to add a Zork ... Wizardry ... and a Leisure Suit Larry to keep it in perspective.

Posted: Aug 18th 2010 6:47PM (Unverified) said

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Don't forget Telengard, Adventure! and Gauntlet.


Posted: Aug 18th 2010 5:25PM Beau Hindman said

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HEY! Who let this guy in my house? Someone call the cops!


PS: Thanks Jeremy!

Posted: Aug 18th 2010 6:36PM wcdregon said

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As a Pay 2 Play MMOer i've never really found a F2P game that can holy my attention. At most i'll play for a month or two, but the P2P games can be like drug addiction literally requiring mental concentration and willpower to walk away from.. That is a powerful force, and its not just the "oh, he's a game addict thing either" not every game incites this type of behavior. I've logged over 1500 hours on Elder Scrolls Oblivion because there's always something I haven't done no matter how many times I replay it and closing Oblivion gates for awesome enchants is well awesome. Final Fantasy XI and WoW both have that "carrot on a stick" characteristic that always makes you want to reach for the next milestone before you can even bask and enjoy the one you just completed.

Posted: Aug 18th 2010 6:49PM Graill440 said

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Why use F2P when it simply doesnt exist. Have you contacted the major MMO companies on this issue? Its original use? You folks throw that hollow term around like a badge of honor, something sexy to wear like that emperor, being told this is whats right and then forcing it upon people as if it were law.

I will tell you what, we will use LOTR as an example, folks playing LOTR's "F2P" model (you can play the old content free forever) will want to access monsterplay, how will you as a Free to Play person not pay and gain access to monster play? Tell me how you will access the top content in the game without paying and i will drop the F2P issue.

And please dont try to state playing the old content forever is the F2P acronym justification.

It is a fact followers will never achieve greatness. It has been said those that believe whatever they are told constantly will begin to believe what they are told without question. Its the leaders in a community that question the status quo, that stand up and say "this is wrong" and force change with fact and direction.

What are you going to do Massively? Believe anything your told? Will you strive to be more than a simple blog sight or push to prove facts and influence issues? With the diverse amount of contributors and editors you have, the potential to make this site huge and not just "some part" of another network is waiting on something....more pay? Direction? Someone that pushes back?

I enjoy the articles of ALL Massively members and i respect their articles in the gaming community, even when you may think i do not. Sometimes though they are misleading.

(add monicle emote and smile, que old spice tune and fade)

Posted: Aug 19th 2010 1:21AM Joshua Przygocki said

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I just really don't enjoy free2play games...

-The games like Shaiya, Rappelz, and Last Chaos, have that grainy. jagged, ugly look to them which just makes my eyes want to scream

-Games like Runes of Magic and Allods are visually alright, hell allods was actually pretty nice looking, but just a somewhat blatant game with no real reason for me to keep playing. And I LOVED Allods but it was... Allods..

-I really don't enjoy the Asian artstyles or the childish/cartoon styles of a lot of f2p games.*

-Cash shops... I would rather pay a set fee, I don't like having limited access. A few fluff items are alright, but not too much...

-I just like feeling like my money is worth something, I would rather spend a set amount of money on a quality game every month, I like how LoTRO and DDO are doing it- freemium- free or subscription

-I've yet to find a free2play mmo that I could really enjoy, I have tried a ton of free games, and some just really turned me away. Others just don't do a very good job of holding my attention, especially when I could just pay 15 dollars and play that shiny game over there.

Overall I just don't get that much enjoyment out of free2play games, maybe I have been spoiled with AAA titles and other games. It could also be that I grew up in a financially stable upper middle class family. I had a job to make money, I also got allowances and other ways I earned money, I have always had money to spend, constantly working and trying to earn more, even if I didn't need it.

I'm not saying f2p games suck or are bad, I just don't like them.

*Not saying I'm too masculine/manly or grown up for these. My favorite singer- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31HX5MFaGjY Anything BUT masculine...

Posted: Aug 19th 2010 1:34AM Joshua Przygocki said

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Just like to add that Beau(and in this case Jeremy), you're the reason I keep giving f2p games a chance, seeing that people can still enjoy them so much keeps me believe that I can too, I'm determined to find my perfect f2p game.

Posted: Aug 19th 2010 8:49AM jeremys said

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"-Cash shops... I would rather pay a set fee, I don't like having limited access. A few fluff items are alright, but not too much..."

"-I just like feeling like my money is worth something, I would rather spend a set amount of money on a quality game every month, I like how LoTRO and DDO are doing it- freemium- free or subscription"

This is where I must have a very backwards way of thinking, because Aren't you clearly limited in DDO and LotRO unless you pay? Isn't that limited access?

I agree though. I think it has a lot to do with how we feel. I'm not an expert, but it may also be a cultural difference as well.

Ragnarok used to be a popular MMO that was subscription based. Lineage 2 and Aion are also sub-based. Apart from them trying to lessen a grind in Aion, don't all three of these sub-based games have primarily the same core mechanics and play styles as all the imported F2P games? I'm really curious to find out what Ragnarok may or may not have changed in-game when they made the switch to F2P. I need to research this more...

Posted: Aug 19th 2010 10:36AM Joshua Przygocki said

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I'd just like to say that the style of those turned me off, and the only time I tried a sub-based game like that was Aion, and while there were some mechanics I liked, I really didn't enjoy the game very much.

About LoTRO and DDO, as I understand it, it's free with cash shop to unlock the game, or subscription that unlocks the game and still let's you use the cash shop with an allowance to buy mounts and fluff and xp potions etc.

Cash shops don't usually bother me too much, I probably shouldn't have said "I don't like having limited access" more so that I don't like being forced to pay for something if it is advertised as free. Even LoTRO is going to be allowing people to make it to the end of the original game, with the extra levels requiring you to buy the expansion like everyone else did.

Posted: Aug 19th 2010 1:52AM Felladin said

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I've tried a lot of "F2P" and the one I still play is Grand Fantasia. The graphics could be a bit more mature, I'm an avid Guild Wars plauer as well, but the gameplay is structured in a very fluent way. There is some grind, but nowhere near that I found in WoW.

And I rather pay 10 dollars a month for the occasional fluff-dress than feel forced to pay 15 dollars just for the privilege of starting the game on an off night.

Posted: Aug 19th 2010 12:13PM Beau Hindman said

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I think it's important to look at some proportions here:

1) Many players say that they do not like FTP because they have played several, if not dozens, FTP games and did not enjoy them. Out of the hundreds that are offered, please note.

2) There are possibly a dozen or more subscription-based games that many of those same gamers would qualify as "AAA." Yet, they do not play all dozen of them...nor have they probably tried all of them extensively. Yet those players do not say "I do not like subscription based games" despite the fact that they have tried, and not stayed subscribed to, a greater percentage of the sub market.

See, it doesn't make sense. The evidence actually points to the fact that most sub-market players stay loyal to one or a few pay mmo's --- even if that is only because of the financial reasons, that still points to a flaw in the design. Sub MMO's demand your loyalty, even through crappy patches and poor development, simply because the player has too much financial stock in the game.

So then why do players stay subscribed to one or two sub-based games, despite only trying a few of them, and for such a long time?

Free-to-play has just as much quality, if not much more, than the pay market. The only difference between the markets is the payment model. If a player is basing their decision to dislike ftp off of playing maybe 5 or 6 ftp games, (barely a percent of the market) then why wouldn't they have the same stereotypical feelings about pay games? After all, they actually played MORE sub games proportionally and did not like them...yet they are still preferring the model.

Strange, at the very least.


Posted: Aug 19th 2010 12:54PM (Unverified) said

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Beau: You state "Free-to-play has just as much quality, if not much more, than the pay market." in your post.

Out of honest curiosity, which F2P games would you put in this category?

Posted: Aug 19th 2010 2:03PM Beau Hindman said

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This is an easy one! hehe Well, sort of. My standards of quality might differ from yours, or be the same. But, still:

1) Runes of Magic
2) Allods Online
3) Mabinogi
4) Anarchy Online
5) Atlantica Online
6) DDO (skirting the edge with this one)
7) Second Life
8) Istaria (formerly Horizons)
9) WURM Online
10) Zentia
11) Imagine Online (Aeria Games)
12) Dream of Mirror Online
13) Mytheon
14) Pandora Saga (essentially a FTP FFXI)
15) Earth Eternal (been saved)
16) Crowns of Power (EQ-ish)
17) Perfect World
18) Ether Saga Online
19) Battle of the Immortals

I could actually go on and on, but many of them (FLYFF, for example,) I do not enjoy as much, have been around for years and years, enjoyed by hundreds of thousands of people. I would like to note that, before someone points out, that most of those games on my list have been as successful, if not more successful, than the games on the list below. For every PTP game that has failed, I can name 5 or more FTP that have stayed alive.

Now, we can also cover games that require a box price, but no sub -- Guild Wars, APB, Global Agenda and others, or we can go to the freemium model: games that require some sort of payment to unlock territory, levels, classes or missions like Wizard 101, Free Realms or even the new LoTRO or EQ2 models.

Now, for the sake of argument, I will name some of the "AAA" mmos that everyone seems to use for the standard of quality, even while they do not like many of these games or do not subscribe to them (meaning they did not like them *enough*?)

1) WoW
2) LotRO
3) EQ2
4) EQ
5) WAR
6) SWG
7) AoC
9) -- having a brain fart at this point.

Let's remember that many of those titles will soon also have a FTP component to them, as well. While I agree that many of those pay games are great, I cannot access them, even in basic ways, without paying something.

The point of this is just to remember that if someone uses the argument that they have played even 10 FTP games (I'm being generous) that they have still played only a mere fraction of the market. They might be correct when saying that they did not like any of them, but they are not correct in saying that they "all" suck.

I *have* played pretty much every single pay-to-play and over one hundred FTP games, so I speak from experience. Please note that I am not saying that "subscription games suck" as many "FTP haters" say about FTP. I am saying that if a person is using percentages to weigh their decisions, then their decision should be that a greater percentage of PTP games suck, simply because there are less of them.

I hope that makes sense. hehe



Posted: Aug 19th 2010 2:12PM Beau Hindman said

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Oops! Technically, I forgot City of Heroes and EVE...EVE though being essentially playable as a FTP game. Log in with a brand new character, obtain enough in-game money for your monthly fee (through gameplay or someone else's generosity) and buy your game time. Still, it can go on both lists.

Of course NOW I'll start thinking of a million examples of both! haha


Posted: Aug 19th 2010 2:54PM XOR said

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ive tried a few F2P, but they just never seem to hook me in - - for even just an hour.

If I do login on a F2P, all it takes is seeing the whole asian-fantasy flare look once & then the game is uninstalled with the next mouse-click.

Posted: Aug 20th 2010 3:39PM (Unverified) said

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I have played, or tried to play, darn near every MMO that exists. I still don't really care for the F2P games. Here is a couple of examples why.

1. In my opinion F2P and "freemium" games just cost more to play. You have to buy bag and bank slots, the ability to carry gold, houses, mounts. Generally things you *need* to actually play the game. I'm not talking about loot here.

2. Quality.. No I'm not talking about graphics or gameplay, some F2P games are more beautiful than many of the paid games out there. However, when you can't even play the game because you can't download it, or after you get it installed it won't even run there is a problem. There is even more of a problem when the forums of said game are filled with the same problem you are having and no fixes.

3. Community.. Some F2P games I am told, have a great community filled with plenty of people just jumping at the chance to help a new person out. Alas, I have yet to find one. I can't count the time I have asked a question in general chat and have either heard crickets, or I get "ROFL lawl "

4. Fun.. Some of the F2P games are fun, but most aren't. Alot of them have very little in terms of depth of a storyline. I like a good balance between small quest hub style quests and epic storyline quests. Many of the F2P games I have played focus more on the former, but I feel the latter is what gives a game it's "flavor". It draws you in to the world and keeps you leveling to see what unfolds.

5. Spamming. Gold spamming seems to be WAY more prevalent in F2P games than it is in paid games..

6. Bazaars, vendor bots and tents.. I don't know how many times I have finally gotten to a main city in whatever game only to be lagged to death by the 30,000 vendors set up in the middle of the city spamming their wares. Most every F2P game seems to have this problem.

7. Crazy ass control schemes that can't be changed. I really don't like click to move, using the arrow keys, etc. I want to be able to map my keybinds any way I like. There are quite a few games I thought I could get in to until the keybinding issue got in my way.

In summary, I am not against F2P games. I just haven't found one I like yet. I'll be honest, I have much the same issues with the paid games I have tried. The only F2P game I ever really liked was Dungeon Runner, I actually ended up paying a subscription for it because I had such a good time with it. Of course, NCSoft decided to cancel that so, I pretty much just play WoW anymore.

Posted: Aug 30th 2010 8:18AM ihaterich said

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I used to play a F2P mmorpg called Tales of Pirates. I was totally addicted, playing up to 17 hours a day, blowing off my friends to spend more time in game. Played every day for almost 2 years.

Unfortunately, the game and f2p in general is pretty unfair and unrewarding. Non cash shop users would have to work 10 times as hard to keep up with those who spent free cash and eventually the game reached a point where non cash shop users couldn't compete at all. This is when I quit playing. I don't know about other games, but Tales of Pirates requires hundreds of dollars a month in item mall purchases if you want to be at all competitive.

Posted: Sep 18th 2010 4:52PM xilr said

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I cant afford most F2P games. By comparison a $15 subscription is a fine deal.

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