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Reader Comments (5)

Posted: Aug 11th 2010 3:23PM Zach Adams said

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As someone who primarily plays Defenders, I'm seriously nervous about this coming change. There was already a strong current of "Controllers can do anything Defenders can almost as well, and hold, so they're better" in a lot of the community. I can see my favorite AT getting even more marginalized down the road as playstyles shift.

Posted: Aug 11th 2010 4:47PM (Unverified) said

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I don't know that I'd worry about that too much. People may say "controllers are more useful than defenders, who wants a defender?" but CoH isn't WoW, no class is required and groups are much more flexible. If you ever try to get in a group with your defender and get told "no thanks, we're waiting for a controller to do buffing" I'd be really amazed. Most groups are just grateful for warm bodies (so to speak) and could care less what your AT is.

Plus, almost-as-good is just another way of saying not-as-good-as. The type of player that's going to be thinking about optomizing group composition is also the type that's going to be thinking about that extra 10 or 20 (or whatever) percent buff bonus a Defender will bring over a Controller.


Even if people worry about group composition, it's going to be very situational. Eliot opines that Corrupters will be more desired than Blasters, but that really depends. If your group has three Defenders (or Controllers, or whatever) do you really want an AT with average damage and even more support, or one that's going to pump out far more damage? A Brute with a lot of support is probably more desirable than a Tanker due to damage output, but if you've only got one support class in your group you probably want that Tank . . .
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Posted: Aug 11th 2010 5:34PM Sam not Spam said

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A good defender is always welcome with the groups I play with, as is a good anything else. COH/COV's "holy trinity" is more Control, DPS and Buff/Debuff. The wonderful thing is you can often do two of those with most characters, and with enough Buff/Debuff everyone does DPS :)

I love defenders. Wouldn't play one, but I love them. Buff/Debuff plus damage? Sure, its not the highest amount out there, but my team is buffed, the enemies debuffed, and the Defender is able to contribute more damage because they're benefiting from that too (plus they can do damage where needed!).

All the AT's and their players have something to contribute in a team. If someone doesn't think they can, then they don't know the game very well or is too uptight about numbers.

Posted: Aug 11th 2010 5:42PM J Brad Hicks said

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My guess is that Rogues and Vigilantes (and Praetorians and Resistance, and people who move completely cross-faction) are going to turn out to result in just another whole new set of missions for stalkers and masterminds to find that they're not wanted for. But I could be wrong.

Don't sell scrappers short. Scrappers get critical hits at a steady rate; brutes only get fury after they've been hit a few times. (There's an old joke in City of Heroes that a scrappers is just a brute who doesn't need foreplay.) Put even one tanker on a team, and the brute will consistently under-perform the scrapper. (And the stalker, for that matter.) I know this first-hand already, from teaming with brutes who complained like mad that my tankermind (mastermind specced for tanking) was stealing their aggro. I merely rolled my eyes; it didn't matter to me that they were doing 40% less damage than they were sometimes capable of, as long as we were steamrolling everything in our path, but apparently it mattered a lot to them.

Don't sell defenders short, either. For anything below a signature hero or arch villain, teams don't really need anything specific, except maybe lots of AoE damage output to speed things up. Once they hit a SH or AV, they run into really severe resistance to debuffs and near total resistance to control. So all of a sudden both the controller and the dominator become as useless as the paps on a boar hog, and the debuffing defender actually matters. This is one of those cases where the 40% reduction in debuff strength for controllers (compared to defenders) sometimes really, really matters.

Posted: Aug 11th 2010 6:29PM Teh Jer said

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I hope your tankermind wasn't taunting away agro (Presence pool), or the brutes would have a right to complain. It's debuffing members of your team for no reason, since a steamroller team isn't facing significant danger. Provoke is best left alone on some teams. Take the alpha and let the fur fly.

Defenders don't offer as much as a controller, but are still a good fit on just about any team. They've got some neat tricks. I haven't come across much in the entire game that didn't have something going for it, really.
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