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Reader Comments (41)

Posted: Aug 10th 2010 6:08PM Graill440 said

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I like Bioware, havent had a single bad experience with them and the entertainment value for the buck is up there with hotwings in a sportsbar for an all sunday football feast, easily spending the price of a box in one sitting.

What troubles me with TOR is the shift in interviews. From day one interviews to the last one, including the written articles, it seems that not everyone there is on the same sheet of music. I have went from anticipating to simply watching with no intention of buying.

That may not seem huge to some but look at it from a consumer standpoint, you read and listen to the hype, may get pulled in, may not, but then something just sours the milk, this is what i have seen an read, the bad taste doesnt go away and the title is a long way from release.

Bioware PR needs to be on the same sheet as the rest of its staff, stating one thing and then a month later stating another tells folks one thing, your not sure what you want to do.

Not good for a developer/distro with a great track record.

Posted: Aug 10th 2010 6:25PM (Unverified) said

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I echo Kal Spiro's concern that was voiced earlier about the credibility of the information presented in this article. As someone who pretty much stalks the Darth Hater site and the official swtor.com site, this is the first I've heard at all of the origin system being in SW:TOR. With all due respect to Larry Everett, I'd really like to know where you got this information from.

There are three avenues I can think of where this information might have come from: 1) the demo used at E3 and/or the other conventions this summer, 2) information from someone in closed beta, or 3) an inside source on the Bioware development team working on the game. Because you mention in a later comment below that you have only seen the creation screens for the Imperial Agent and the Bounty Hunter, I'm going to guess that choice #3 is not the source. The other two sources are far from being full versions of the game.

The reason I bring this up is that the entire point of the article seems to be a dissatisfaction with the breadth of choice a player will have. I'll be the first to admit, if each class only had one choice of alien race, and that alien race could only be one of the three character "origins," that would be disappointing. However, Bioware has stated that other race/class combinations are still possible. Additionally, we've seen other species such as Togruta being featured in early development videos, suggesting that there are other species out there that haven't been announced.

I suppose, to summarize, that I am upset that an article here would give the impression that species choices are so much more constricted than we safely know. Who's to say that we won't have at least 3 or 4 race choices for every origin? For sure, it's no guarantee, but as far as I am aware, there isn't any credible source that would lead us to believe that isn't the case.

Posted: Aug 10th 2010 7:21PM Dandmcd said

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I haven't seen any official sources of this information, at least that I remember, but there are beta leaks all over the place about the origin system being in place, so possibly some sites have posted that info up as news.
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Posted: Aug 11th 2010 9:51AM (Unverified) said

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The way I understand race will not have that big an influence on back story. It seems to be the opposite that class story has an influence on racial choice.

*****SPOILERS*****

It has been confirmed Sith Inquisitors are slave born. It makes since for Zabrak, mostly hailing from Iridonia, a Sith slave world, to be able to be inquisitors. While Sith purebloods are revered and rare so its highly doubtful you'd see a pureblood slave. Same with Chiss they have been shown to be one of the very few nonhumans races the Empire is tolerant of.

Posted: Aug 10th 2010 7:01PM wjowski said

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You should feel lucky you're getting any alien race options. The last two games were human-only.

Posted: Aug 10th 2010 7:49PM claytondora said

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I like the concept of tying player backgrounds into race, as a storytelling element, it makes sense. All I want from this is them to actually consider the story of Star Wars when deciding what class can be what. Most of the classes should allow for a great degree of flexibility concerning race choice, excluding Sith Warrior/Inquisitor and Agent. Lore-wise, most of the species that are planned to be playable should fit just fine into the at least one of the story backgrounds for Jedi/Smuggler/Bounty Hunter/Trooper. All the possible races (except Chiss, Miraluka, and Sith, who have direct ties to particular factions) are space-faring, force-sensitive species.

Ultimately, if I am allowed to make a Twilek smuggler, I want to be able to make a Twilek Trooper, Jedi, or Bounty Hunter, All of which make perfect sense when considering the STORY.

Posted: Aug 10th 2010 11:46PM Dblade said

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So each class gets one human and one non-human, with the human having multiple backgrounds for some odd reason. I can see why if they plan to give each background its own unique story, but still, that sucks in terms of diversity.

Posted: Aug 10th 2010 11:57PM (Unverified) said

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I complained as soon as I heard this why because when I play a game 9/10 I will pick the least human looking option available and I was really looking forward to this game until I realized that to make their "4th pillar" work they were going to restrict us to humans or very human looking aliens which annoys the hell out of me there are some really cool looking species that are prominent in the Star Wars setting and no I dont want one as a pet.

Restricting the already extremely limited options even further by making them class specific is annoying as hell i get why they have done it but it just makes me start to think that if they had to restrict us this much then maybe this 4th pillar really wasn't worth the effort. I cant remember where offhand but they have pretty much said that one of the main reasons that all playable species are near humans is to support the romance storylines possible with certain companion characters makes me want to beat myself over the head. Why not just let me play a Trandoshan or a Wookie or whatever if thats what i want and have those options disabled when playing a species that makes them innapropriate.

This is not the same as class/race combos in other mmos which largely exist to support the ingame lore this is an artificial restriction to support biowares gimmick mechanic..

Posted: Aug 11th 2010 12:47AM bAss ackwards said

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Eff. I just want to make a Zabrak Trooper. Is that too much to ask for?

Posted: Aug 11th 2010 1:20AM vjohnson said

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The race restriction thing bugs me as much as it does you to be honest. I, like man, are used to the MMO convention of there being class restriction based on race (ie, no Dwarf Burglers). This is the first time we've really seen class restriction based on race. And yeah, I did want the option to look at a Kel-Dor, or a Mon Calmari, or a Duros, or any number of other races I'm used to from playing the SAGA edition of the table top RPG. I look at the lack of options and I go, "but why?"

I think the answer comes in something that we're used to from Bioware and usually works, but we're having trouble adapting to the MMO mindset. What was awesome about KotOR, about Mass Effect, about Dragon Age? It was the story. In all of those games only one gave you the option of being a different race, and sure there were changes depending on what race you were and what you did but in the end the story was all basically the same. Bioware is looking at Mass Effect as the poster child for storytelling, and you got to choose a gender. In their minds the story is far more important than if I'm able to play a pink female Mon Calmari Sith Inquisitor. They're trying to say, "Play the story and enjoy that and see what you think," unlike what most MMOs do. Everyone is so used to the WoW model of level, dungeon, raid that now we're being presented with something different and I think we as an MMO community, or at least a bunch of us who want to play the game since there seems to be a lot of people not interested, are having trouble adjusting. I'm seeing it in the FFXIV beta as well; it does things different and I think it's going to tweak people enough that a lot aren't going to like it because it's different.

And hey, new races...that's what expansions and later DLC are for. And pre-order bonuses.

Posted: Aug 11th 2010 7:04AM Kentung said

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If Bioware put everything fans wanted into this game, it wouldn't be out til late 2015. At a certain point you make decisions, and stick to them, if you want something even resembling an on time release.

The building of a non-human body shape that does everything as a player is not trivial.

I do feel the pain of fewer choices: The trade off needs to be good....

Posted: Aug 11th 2010 9:25AM toothball said

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The more I read about this game, the more I am perplexed that Bioware is even trying to make it an MMO. Bioware is great at making story driven RPGs and it seems that this is going to be very similar to their previous games with just enough bare bones "MMO" features to warrant a $15 subscription.

The races seem extremely uninspired. Color is not enough visual variety for today's MMOs and I feel like it's this "incredible" story system that is going to be a major limiting factor to this game. To have the Star Wars universe at your finger tips and have such a lackluster line up of species is pretty nuts. Hopefully the 3 confirmed races make it into the game, but still I think the average player is going to get bored pretty fast looking at the same general character model across all their toons.

I have long followed this game with anticipation, but unfortunately the more I learn, the less interested I become.

Posted: Aug 11th 2010 1:22PM Mikx said

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People are upset because exotic aliens are one of the defining features of Star Wars, and If you grew up with the movies, like many of us have, you have emotional attachments to things like the Ithorian, or the Mon Calamari. Heck, I love Saelt Marae, and would love to play as one of that species, but realistically that is pretty much not going to happen.

And instead, the options we have so far are not truly fantastical creatures, they are really, more basic and more humanoid than what you get in the typical episode of 1960s star trek.

Posted: Aug 11th 2010 2:22PM (Unverified) said

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This decision makes sense to me. Bioware wants each character to be unique, so they have different stories for each class and race. And, since humans are likely to be the most popular race (no elves in SW), they are giving humans two stories. But, they are up against a time limit, so they limit some races to only certain classes. That way they have more overall races without adding even more starting stories.

As far as being a unique snow flake, this is a problem of MMOs as a whole and is not unique to this game. But, Bioware is somewhat alleviating this. Although you are going to play through the same story as other players, what you do during that story is likely to set you apart. Are you going to be a nice guy in a tough spot? Or a violent maniac? Or just a guy trying to keep on keeping on?

And, lastly, it is an unfortunate reality that most players are not RPers. RPers may be content with 50 different races that all have the same story because they create their own story. For the rest of us, it makes more sense to have a couple races and classes, each with a unique storyline.

Posted: Aug 11th 2010 5:30PM SkuzBukit said

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The race choices, if they can even be referred to as anything other than humanoids, on offer so far are really quite disappointing, as others have already highlighted one of the real charms of Star Wars versus Star Trek was the sheer variety of aliens that really were alien in not just appearance but also form.

BioWare are taking the easy street so far with multicoloured humans, where are the insectoid 6-limbed races, races that run on all fours, races with greatly altered proportions to humans etc, this is looking less a galaxy far far away & more Saturday night at the local disco.

As to race-locked classes, as already it really just does not fit the lore, while some races may well be more pre-disposed to one side of the force or another should still leave it open to players to be the exceptions, in every game with race-locked classes I've ever played I have never felt that it was justifiable, except perhaps under extremes, such as a tiny creature being a gigantic axe carrying berserker - that's just plain ridiculous but where there would be no physical impediment, I see no reason to lock classes at all, certain things may need to adapt for example the tiny berserker would use hand blades rather than a huge axe.

I'm become more cautious of this title with these new details rather than more interested.

Posted: Aug 11th 2010 6:04PM Rimeshade said

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It really depends on two factors regarding race differences for me;

1. Animations
2. Other customisations.

One point 1, one thing that WoW certainly does well is its unique racial animations. Yes, there are bugger all options for physical customisation WITHIN each race but the models themselves (particularly the males) look very different and all have totally different and smooth animations.

If the SWTOR races are simple reskins but with unique animations per race then it makes up for the lack of model differentiation as each race will FEEL different.

On point 2, if each race has some build options, even a simple bulky, average, small tripartite system then that's more options overall and again makes up for the lack of graphical racial diversity by adding three different graphical options per character, granted not as much as having unique models would do but its something.
Also on point 2, Bioware may include animation options (something I desire greatly for WoW), for example a Jedi character may visit a trainer to switch their form which would alter their animations for readying attacks, special attacks, force attacks etc. for example a Jedi Consular picking Ataru would have very jumpy, agile and quick animations for special attacks perhaps with lots of flair and spins whereas a Consular picking Makashi would be much more calm, restrained and fluid with precise and quick special attack animations.
Something similar could be done for other classes.

For my own part I personally quite like the Nagai so the race reskins don't really bother me.

Posted: Aug 11th 2010 9:08PM (Unverified) said

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The only thing I am concerned about in regards to species is that all the 'races' have looked like the same human on a different color scale. Now, if Bioware had a background of good/great character customization, as in making different looking faces/body types etc. I would not be worried. The problem is, they don't.

In my experience, some of the worst character customization from a triple A title that I've ever seen have all come from Bioware. In Mass Effect 1 and 2, you just didn't have enough options to make a unique looking character, on top of that, almost everything you created looked terrible compared to the default Shepard. Albeit, Dragon Age was a slight step up, I still feel the characters ended up looking pretty janky without community addons.

Posted: Aug 12th 2010 3:02AM Severius said

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First we have no idea all of the races that are even in the game. It seems that much of the so called information in this article is based upon privileged beta information. As such this would mark a huge breach of NDA and if the article writer is not the beta tester then the site should see to it that this sort of article is censured until ok'd by the property owners. If the article writer is in the beta, well, they won't be for long.

Secondly, as the only beta test(s) that have been held so far have been very limited then this article is running on half baked assumptions and incomplete code. Way to follow mmorpg.com with the assumption articles and beta leaks gang. Hope bioware blacklists you from every event, every interview and beta request.

Posted: Aug 12th 2010 4:38AM The Wok said

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"That said -- as it stands -- every Ratattiki bounty hunter has the exact same backstory. As a roleplayer in an MMO, that concerns me."

This is the case in pretty much every MMO. If it were Blizzard, you'd have the "Blood Elf Blood Knight" background for the paladin. Every Death Knight had the same backstory: killed by the Scourge, brought back to swell the ranks as Death Knights. Every Worgen has the same backstory: turned trying to save Gilneas from the worgen, you are the first successful recipient of a curse-inhibiting poison, which allows you to maintain control.

Honestly, if it came right down to it, Bioware could just put up the standard class/race matrix on the character creation screen. They just decided to go a different route, adding some background flavor to the descriptions.

As a roleplayer in an MMO, it doesn't mean a thing. My character's story probably won't match up with the class story. It's really a non-issue.

Regarding the amount of races, I think people are overreacting. Bioware has said that smuggler is not the only class that will be able to select twi'lek. More options will be added as time goes on. Honestly, I think TOR is a textbook case of how not to release information.

Posted: Aug 12th 2010 5:28AM (Unverified) said

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The author kind of admits to be getting this from a leaked source; which I happen to have also seen.

I do find it kind of baffling that an article on Massively is written on the basis of a highly restricted beta test that only allowed testers to play a very limited amount of game content for a game that is still at least 9 months away.

In other words, there is no way to know if this is final, and it most likely is not; furthermore, if this is indeed coming from leaks, you're actively hurting the game.

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