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Reader Comments (41)

Posted: Aug 10th 2010 3:01PM MrGutts said

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Does it say some place in Lucas approved cannon that all races can be a Sith? If all races could be a Sith, would they be aloud by the empire?

MMO gamers are not a unique snowflake in game, in anyway shape or form and most likely never will be.

I am looking at the millions of people who bought the sparky ponies from EQ2 and WoW and thought they would be sooo unique in doing so. oh and a reminder http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCjuFpQ3EeA

Posted: Aug 10th 2010 3:07PM (Unverified) said

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I certainly feel the "options, options, options" pain. I hold onto hope for two reasons, though: 1) the game is still probably 8-9 months away, assuming the incredibly unlikely occurrence of it not being pushed back, so there's time for more options to be added, and 2) Sean Dahlberg's tease that "there are combinations we haven't confirmed. James recently talked on this subject at Comic-Con International, though, and announced that there will be some restrictions. For the time being, the combinations we have announced you can count on. What other combinations will there be? That's an update for another day..."

There's also the interestingly-worded quote of Ohlen's that kinda-sorta-maybe-suggested that there could be some sort of race/class unlock system, since they've specifically said they won't be doing faction change. From the PC-Gamer article: "They will only be available for Republic classes during character creation, 'But that's not to say you can't have an Imperial player that's a Miraluka,' according to Ohlen."

Posted: Aug 10th 2010 3:33PM (Unverified) said

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"there is rarely a complaint when an Elf is just a Human with pointy ears, or a Drow is a blue Elf, or a halfling is just a short Human with bare feet"

This, this, a hundred times this.

EVERY race in SWG is a reskinned human, albeit with a different set of hands/feet or head. Hell, most games are the same way. Its just easier slightly adjust and throw a different skin on the wireframe, requiring less time and resources.

Posted: Aug 10th 2010 3:41PM Darkdust said

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Not true in SWG, though it caused trouble later on when species like Ithorians and Wookiees couldn't get wearables developed in the same timeframe as the others.
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Posted: Aug 10th 2010 3:41PM (Unverified) said

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People like to bitch, there is the reason so many are up in arms. And there is no bitchier group of people on planet Earth than Star Wars fans. No, I don't mean the girl in 3C who thinks Han Solo is cute. I mean that guy with a storm trooper helmet in his cube. Those fans think the Star Wars universe revolves around them and that all things canon-related should be brought to their desk just before Lucas'.

Just like with the current on-rails method of doing space combat, I am quite sure species and the classes they can be is going to be tweeked many times in the future. This is the thing that xpacs are made for. My god, does ANYONE believe that the release version of ToR is all they will ever get?

Posted: Aug 10th 2010 3:48PM Fakeassname said

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oh wow!

I was quoted!

heh, I was trolling when I posted that because I'm damned sick of hearing about this game, I have no interest in playing it and am actively trying to ignore it but it's impossible when every game site has something about it every single day. I'm sick of being eye raped by this game!

I even gave in and watch that first combat trailer when it came out a while back, the result was that I spit up my milk and cereal laughing at how uninnovative the game actually was. then the hatred set in, or maybe it just resurfaced from the days of the phantom menace, because not only was I being forced to skim crap about this game daily but it wasn't even going to be worth a damn!

nerd rage aside: that is how I feel about Bioware! yeah the actual writing is technically good but it's funny that they would term this space stuff "tunnel shooter", because that's what I see their entire game catalog as! you have three options to as to how you want to fly down one tunnel.

the tunnel could have green pain (fantasy)

or it could have blue paint (Sci-fi)

but the tunnel will have three three turns in it and the only optional activity you can partake of beside blindly follow the plot as it leads you through the tunnel is to attempt to bone your party members.

I hate Bioware because they are ruining RPGs, they made one good game years ago and have just been repackaging it over and over. if it was just limited to Bioware it wouldn't be a problem but other people have pick up on it and point to Biowares sales as an excuse to not be innovative. the reality is that Bioware makes money because there really isn't any other option for narrative RPG's besides Bethsoft (another formula cloner) as europend RPGs are mor like fantasy simulation games and JRPGs don't translate well to the PC (when the get ported).

also FF my be a formula game but their formulas are limited to mechanics while they reinvent the plot wheel each time (true that not always is it a good result but at least their trying ...) so each time your presented with a new story to follow.

Posted: Aug 10th 2010 3:53PM Fakeassname said

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damn "green PAINT" not green "pain".

god forbid if they ever decide to add in yellow paint (modern day)

*facepalm* prophetic moment!

"the next game IP that Bioware-EA will announce after TOR will be a Sims based one." - I called, you heard it here first!
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Posted: Aug 10th 2010 3:52PM Qehb said

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Ok so we get a bright red human, a dark red human with spikes, a green human and a blind human.

love how Biosoft is giving us a diverse selection of species to choose from like they promised...

Posted: Aug 10th 2010 4:14PM (Unverified) said

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For some reason, race/class restrictions in TOR bothers me a lot, even though you see race/class restrictions in other MMO's like WoW and AoC. I believe, though, my discomfort comes from the beauty in Star Wars that anyone, regardless of race or gender or whatever, can fall to the Dark Side or the Light Side. You see Twi'leks who are Sith and you see Twi'leks who are Jedi Masters. There are good Zabraks and there are bad.

Granted, there's going to be some stereotypically bad and good races, but I think this restriction isn't justified by lore and background. It just feels tacked on and gimmicky.

/shrug

Posted: Aug 10th 2010 4:18PM Audacious said

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Whoo, boy. Activating Raze level rant mode. This is all from some guy who doesn't care one way or another about Star Wars and only paid attention as he watched a few movies to pass the time, so maybe the fanatics (who actually care to read this muddled tirade) can correct me on a few points, but here we go.

The point you brought up in the second to last paragraph is actually one thing I hate about the MMO genre. Why only elves, dwarves, and/or some other variant of the little people? Why are developers so terrified to experiment with PC races? Why do they /all/ have to be so "standard" and human-like across the board? Fantasy means realities rules and concepts can be ignored and brushed aside temporarily, and even when this is taken to heart, even when there are fantastical monsters and settings and worlds and customs and concepts.... All we ever see as protagonists are the same old Anglo Saxon, bare bone human heroes so immovably dominate in all forms of media back on good ol' planet Earth.

It's even less forgivable in Star Wars or other sci-fi settings, the former of which is jampacked with enough varying aliens of different sizes, body types, tongues, and appearances to make Dr. Seuss sit up in his grave and pay attention. The Cantina scene from the original movie drove the point home to me that this wasn't Star Trek with the silly puddy faced 'aliens': this really, truly was a "Galaxy Far, Far Away". Their presence isn't even something that can be handwaved away, either. Consistently, aliens (yes, the more 'exotic' ones too) are portrayed as Jedi Knights, counsel members, random passerbies, and whatever else. They're a constant presence in the stories and the films wouldn't be the same without them.

When everyone looks like a human with a fresh coat of paint and a tragic backstory (I don't know the first thing about these blind folded 'aliens' and I'd be willing to bet that the whole of their existence is a shrine to wangst) to me, that cheapens the concept that I'm somewhere so far removed from earth. Evidently it's not so far removed that all these other species that evolved on different planets from my own conveniently look, dress, act, and talk like me. It kills the only thing that has ever interested me in the space opera genre in the first place.

Really, what is there aside from the aliens that makes this series special that doesn't involve men beating at each other with oversize glowsticks?

Posted: Aug 11th 2010 3:26AM Synthetic said

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I wholeheartedly agree.

Horizons: Empires of Istaria. Some ten odd years ago, it captivated me with the incredible racial line-up they'd intended for the game. And although nothing more than an idea at the time, playing as a Ku'lak or Lamurian or Dragon was a fantastical notion with fantastical appeal.


Wrath of the Lich King presented WoW with an amazing opportunity. The Nerubians, a decidedly non-humanoid race, would have been phenomenal in that game. Who wouldn't want to play as a gian spider-centaurish thing? For whatever reason Blizzard decided not to include them as a playable race or any new race and a unique chance to explore that avenue of game design and play was lost - seeing as they're not well suited for any other expansion lore wise.

I'm tired of playing as different flavors of human. Can't I be something inhuman for once?
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Posted: Aug 11th 2010 12:55PM (Unverified) said

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Agreed.

BioWare is taking the simple path to cut corners and time from development. The trouble with truly non-human avatars is in the animation. Creating animation keyframes for only one single base "race" and simply re-skinning the meshes provides for the most efficient method of delivering some sense of customizability and individuality while at the same time keeping things simple and straight forward from a developer's perspective.

Imagine if they had to create keyframe animations for not only simple and basic things like walking, and hand gestures during conversation, but also, unique animations per race for every possible action a character could perform. It isn't unreasonable to think that a Wookiee would swing a sabre differently from the tentacle-avoiding technique of a Twi'lek, for example. However, the races BioWare is releasing with SW:ToR would seem as though their sabre techniques (and thus, the related animations) would be fairly standard among them.

Save time developing, save money developing, and they can obfuscate this TRUE reason with something lore or story based, like, for example -- these are english speaking races, that's why we included them, yeah, yeah, that's why, yeah. Because we couldn't find actors that speak Wookiee. Yeah. /nod /nod.


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Posted: Aug 10th 2010 4:28PM (Unverified) said

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So I'm assuming the information on backstory/species connection is coming from leaked information, otherwise it would seem you'd have more information. I really hope this is the case because if it is that means it can be faulty. I really do not like the idea of three options at the most for each class and direct species restrictions. I tend not to believe it is. I'm under the impression that all three backgrounds are linked to a specific class/species combination. So each Sith Warrior Pureblood would have three different backgrounds from each Sith Warrior Human.

This would also allow for more spreading out of the species. The thing if you bring up LotRO and mention your Dwarf couldn't be a burgler, but he wasn't restricted to only one possible class, was he? Rarely do you see such extreme restrictions as a single class available to each species. It's hard to make that argument with BioWare, of course since they have only made one game, outside of a predesigned system (read Baldur's Gate), that even allowed you to be something other then human. While Dragon Age only had one class with restriction it was still only restricted from a single class. Dwarves could be two of the three. With that as a precident, it just doesn't make sense for them to do it the way you've described.

Posted: Aug 10th 2010 4:40PM Tom in VA said

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I am perfectly happy with whatever race/class combinations Bioware chooses to offer. I think this is going to be a great game that just gets better over time. I like the fact that there are race/class combination restrictions. I always thought it was neat in WoW that only taurens and night elves could be druids (though that is about to change, I know) and wished there had been more such race/class restrictions rather than fewer.

The moaning, groaning, and whining about SWTOR really amazes me, honestly. Sheesh. I can only hope the whiners and wailers all migrate off to ... well ... whatever game it is that somehow miraculously meets all their hopes and expectations.

Posted: Aug 10th 2010 4:47PM Qehb said

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Guild Wars 2 seems to be a runner
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Posted: Aug 10th 2010 4:56PM uberman3000 said

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You know what I love most about Massively is? Massively wants to hate this game so much and opens the flood gates for trolls. Gosh if maybe you gather more creditable information then a teaser update... Janus, Sneaky and few others out there know what I'm talking about. Then again what am I doing... oh yeah I'm trolling too. ;p

Now that I got that out...

I am positive that there will be something in TOR that I will not agree with or just not like. Whatever I might not like at this time, won't be enough to make me not want to play it. There are even people out there that hate MMOs that want to try TOR because of what they have seen so far. I don't think BioWare is dumb they know whats good and know what people will hate. Just wait till TOR comes out try it yourself or read in your opinion is a creditable review (after release). The prospect of playing to open more playable options like races is a good carrot on stick to keep people (like me) playing.

Ok more trolling then I'm done, I promise...

OMG, I just thought of this. What if the reason why some of you might hate TOR all ready is, that it might have parts that might be better then WoW... /gasp

PS,
I apologize if I have mutilated the English language.

xoxo

Posted: Aug 10th 2010 5:24PM Qehb said

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No the reason why I hate the game is that it does not have any parts WoW has your right about biosoft they do know what people think is good and what people hate so they took WoW which people think is good and then they simply copied it and added a few little gimmicks and an already overly used franchise and have added nothing innovative.
I dont like this game as it is moving the genre backwards rather than forwards.
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Posted: Aug 11th 2010 11:40AM uberman3000 said

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Yes the fully voiced story driven MMO is such a gimmick... Nothing like Recruit-A-Friend and get a puppy. All so there is nothing like having a running tally all things arbitrary like how many people I've /hug ed. So yeah you're right it's a WoW clone with new gimmicks and is moving backwards. Man what was I thinking I'm such a fool.
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Posted: Aug 10th 2010 5:26PM Qehb said

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*any parts wow has not

Posted: Aug 10th 2010 6:04PM Sunlover said

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My conclusion is that most people want what they can't have and only want it until they get. In short, most people are crazy. You can please some of the people some of the time, and none of the people all the time, as the old saying goes. And that's just people, not *crazy* people...

Most people were tired of MMOs with little to no story, much less a story that you could actually have some impact on through dialogue trees and character choices. Here comes Bioware to give it to them and what do they do? Practically tear the poor game devs apart verbally because they haven't given them -enough- choice. Really? As if what Bioware is trying to do already is not ambitious enough? As if there are any other MMOs out there that have done this to date? But no, now that they have their story, it's not enough story. One minute they're accused of doing things the same, the next they are slandered for doing things too different. One minute they are trying to do too much, the next minute they aren't doing enough? And when will it end? Never, because people are crazy. Just ask any MMO game developer or community manager off the record, I'm sure they'll tell you.

Bioware knew what they were getting into by tackling the Star Wars IP though. I just hope they are sane enough to do what they do best and see it through. May the Force be with them. They're going to need it.

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