| Mail |
You might also like: WoW Insider, Joystiq, and more

Reader Comments (55)

Posted: Aug 5th 2010 5:42PM Samael said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
That was good, it is nice to know where people stand.

I see as usual Beau is not willing to admit that there are negative sides to the F2P model. And I for one sure as hell hope that not everything turns to F2P, I would have to stop playing then. The value is just not there for that.

Anyways I think the best response was from Jef, and I completely agree with him. But that is a little biased as he holds my point of view. I hope that there is at least a few P2P games where I can find refuge when everything else goes F2P.

As for the objectively best response, that goes to Brianna Royce. I am all for choices and competition. I would love to see more choices being offered, such as LoTRO is providing or DDO is providing. The option to play the game and enjoy the game in my own way. A restaurant that serves both a buffet and a la carte. I hope to see more hybrid models in the future I hope. F2P is just not up to par right now.

The problem I have with a lot of the F2P supporters is that they believe that F2P is the only way of the future and that P2P is just a stupid thing. All I am saying is that, do not take away my buffets, I really happen to like them, even if you feel that they are crappy. You can have your F2P games, but please for the love of all things holy, lets be for choices to the players. At the end of the day, that will be the best for both of us.

Posted: Aug 5th 2010 6:15PM Bhima said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I think its reasonable to assume all the payment models are hear to stay. I also think that it is reasonable to assume that at some point, the majority of MMOs will be either some type of F2P, hybrid-F2P (like DDO and LOTRO), or box sales/content sales instancing (ala GW). We will ALWAYS have full P2P premiere MMOs because there will always be a market for high quality, polish and lots of content from games like WoW or SWTOR. The problem is, the initial investment for a premiere MMO of that caliber in today's world is just way too big a risk for just any game developer to take. This is why we will continue to see P2P models, but less companies will make these types of games because they don't want to risk that type of investment, especially when the P2P captive audience is already paying for a sub from another game. F2P options allow smaller game companies to give you smaller in scope games then say, the 5-10 year development cycle of a Blizzard/Bioware game.

I see even Cryptic moving towards a hybrid model with some of their games because the P2P competition is just driving the investment costs and potential risks through the roof. F2P gives the customers AND the developers more options... that is why these alternative payment models will dominate the MMO landscape, even if there are still some great P2P games available.

Posted: Aug 5th 2010 7:57PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Honestly, I just hope Pay4Parts wins in the end. Prefer the whole buying chunks of full game play the most. Mini expansion packs but with no restrictions or item malls. Or maybe even P2P w/o box costs. I like the idea of pay for mini expacks the most because It ensures the companies will have to release updates regularly.

I just couldn't get hooked on any F2P games for longer than a month yet so I'm biased. I don't mind paying for a game I enjoy F2P or otherwise, its just I've just never been able to settle in a to one.

Has there been many F2P games released by American companies? Not counting failing sub games switching over. I'd like to see how a well an American F2P game is. Please no "Aion" translated games either. You can get the English correct but never the game play.

Posted: Aug 5th 2010 11:00PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
"Nobody is willing to pay that sub for nothing. They'll leave as soon as they find they aren't getting enough value for that subscription while F2P games let them login guilt free even if the developers have abandoned the game."

This is very true, but the first sentence and first half of the second is WAY more true. Look at WoW, each time they reach the end of a current expansion the period between the end of the current (WotLK) and the next (Cata) you see people giving up their subs because they have basically done it all, at least for that content, or they hate the way the game is for that expansion and don't want to waste the money in order to keep their access to the game.

Posted: Aug 6th 2010 12:37AM Anique said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I recently tried out LOTRo leaving a f2p(Allods) and I was like: Holy $h!t. Do ppl pay for this crap. The graphics were beyond horrible and the gameplay was soso. The server which I tried: Vilya, was empty.
All those who're saying that the quality of f2p games is crap has either never tried a good f2p game or has never tried on of the many crappy p2p games.
I agree that playing f2p games, u have to be ready to pay for crucial suff in the cash shop at some point or the other.

Posted: Aug 9th 2010 6:24AM BGExorcist said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Guess why they make one last shot to milk the project /F2P/. Not saying all P2P are fabulous. But not one F2P is also.
Reply

Posted: Aug 6th 2010 2:30AM Bhima said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Tempes
"The way a game is designed has absolutely nothing to do with its financial model after release.
They can do absolutely anything they want as long as they make enough money somehow.

That's the absolute truth of every game and financial model."

Actually, it absolutely does. Game designers are now crafting games based off of different financial models and they are tailoring both the type of content and how it is deployed through different financial models. For example, a company like Tell Tale games specializes in episodic content. You pay roughly 10 bucks an episode or a full price for all the episodes. The business model is what drives they type of games they design. This is just one example, another example of designing a game that fits a pricing structure are iPhone games. Do you think a game studio would sink 50+ million into making an iPhone game that, by its very nature could never sell for more than 10 bucks? Of course not, the risk is too high for the actual demand at that price point. So they scale down the content and scope which lowers the overall cost of the game, lowering the price point and hopefully make it up with more customers.

With regards to a seemless world, I'll have to defer to an actual programmer... but on initial thought, I would think the smaller game developers would create more seemless worlds if it was in fact easier to make and maintain.

Posted: Aug 6th 2010 3:39AM Samael said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
You make me laugh Tempus. I really like your zeal. But seriously though clam down just a little, high blood pressure is not good, trust me I know. It is just a game, and we are not fighting for the end of humanity as we know it are we? We can stay civil in this discourse can we not? And if you get the time, go back and read a nice little rant I wrote in a previous F2P article that I accused you of blindly following. Please, as that might give you a better understanding of where I come from.

Or you could just carry on doing what you are doing and forget civility, and you can go back to the name calling.

But calling me a troll/unintelligent or anything you want does not change a thing. I have never said that F2P games are asian grinders as you seem to have mentioned (if you forgot where please look at the GW comment).

"P2P(sub) and F2P(no sub) can't coexist because one removes the essential element of the other. One is an endless endless fee while the other is made up of finite fees."

Do you have any idea how wrong you are here? Well you do actually, because you already mentioned three games in your little rant. DDO is doing amazing, so will LoTRO. Both of which will offer a F2P option for people who prefer it, and for people like me, there will be a monthly option. And EQ2 is taking it to another server all together. So I am sorry buddy, but I can assure you that F2P and P2P can co-exist and I hope it does.

You seem unable to think anything beyond your initial assumption. As I have said, from every single F2P game that I have tried or have seen, none of them has had the quality or mechanics or anything to attract me or make me stay. On top of that as I have said I like my buffet style. Pay one price and get everything style suits me very well. The operative word there being me.

I want to be able to choose between F2P and P2P. You seem to want nothing other than complete eradication of the P2P model. See where we differ? I want to offer choice to the players on which model they would like. You seem to want to make that decision for everyone, while questioning their intelligence.

I hope you enjoy your games, while I enjoy mine.

Posted: Aug 7th 2010 8:56AM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
F2P is tailored for the casual gamers while subscription based games are mostly for the hardcore gamers... it really is as simple as that.

Hardcore gamers will dedicate important periods of time and a lot of effort into "mastering" a game... and a subscription based payment will not stand in their way, while a F2P one will "force" them to sink a lot more than 15 bucks a month if they really want to be competitive.

For the casual players... F2P games are perfect since they dont require any financial effort to play them 1,2 hours / day or week. And casual gamers dont really care about being competitive, top ranked and things like that... so they wont ever be bothered by the item mall.

So yeah... seeing how the MMO market is slowly but surely switching to please the casuals, it's clear that F2P is eventually going to win. Unless it gets beaten by something even more casual friendly. :)

Posted: Aug 6th 2010 4:26PM claytondora said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Haha, take a look at Vindictus/Dragon Nest/Black Prophecy. Do any one of those games scream 'cheap clone'? Not in the least. The only restriction previously placed on F2P titles was that companies producing them did not expect large returns on their investments, so they didn't sink large amounts of capital into those projects. Much has changed however, and many developers are realizing that F2P is a viable way to release and market a game.F2P has good potential, and IMO, I don't like paying for something if I don't have too.

I think (and hope) that the model that Guild Wars and now Global Agenda is taking will be adopted by more companies. Buy the Box, own the game, pay no sub, and purchase expansions as they come out. As server costs continue to drop, this will become more and more feasible a strategy.

Posted: Aug 6th 2010 5:01PM wcdregon said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
This F2P conversation has boiled down to money talks, but the whole reason its a controversial subject is because there are more things being separated than just how you pay. A game that costs $15/mo can only be played by people with steady jobs or some form of income or kids with parents who have steady income. Its not just a guarantee for the company that you'll be committed to their game, but its a commitment to yourself as a player. If I pay $50 for the box and $15x12months for the sub then $20-30 per expansion plus whatever your virtual product costs are for those (hardcore) players that buy gold or accounts or whatnot.

I enjoy playing with other mature players, and it helps the immersion factor when your not being screwed with or trolled while your playing. Of course every game has these people but I think F2P games have more of this kind of behavior.

Not only that but even though the quality of F2P games has risen, you cant say that there isn't any difference in quality between the two types. This may be because of money or lack of creating talent or a more subtle blend of multiple elements. I don't want people thinking that large studio's make better games cause thats not true, but large studios can do more with a good product than a small outfit could. Take Final Fantasy for example if you consider that a 2nd gen MMORPG it has major flaws with the questing and solo system, which is something so core to the game design that it couldn't be changed if they wanted to. This game still garners ooohs and ahhhs from the high production quality it has irregardless of the flaws. the flaws arent so bad that the game is broken. it doesn't take much to have a broken game though. When I first logged into FFXI, i literally watched the sun set and I felt like it was a real sunset. Ive never had a moment like that in other MMO's i've played. WoW is so successful because of the quality and attention to detail. there are tons of other mmo's that copy WoW's best qualitites but still fail to deliver the same experience because when it comes to Western audiences that are used to having quality and choice, not just in gaming but in all aspects of life. There is no substitute for quality. I as an avid gamer and MMOer don't have a spending limit on my game of choice. I'm a bachelor with a good job and little responsibility outside of work, the #1 deciding factor in my gaming choice is probably quality overall with fanboyism coming in a close second. I think there are lots of other gamers like me out there too. MMOers in general are a community of slightly to severely damaged goods. That gamer that is always online and has the best gear, is usually the guy who is a major depressive with no job and his wife left him, or in the case of my best friend independently wealthy, but the former is a LOT more common than the latter. Even worse for gamers like my best friend, the world is his oyster, in free games he usually dominates because he has no issues with spending thousands on cash shops.

In summary the pay style still hasn't evolved enough to separate itself from defining playstyle on some levels and I won't advocate F2P until that day comes.
The so called access barrier that P2P has, P2P'ers enjoy having that barrier for the most part.

Posted: Aug 6th 2010 7:02PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Kinda boils down to one thing for me, most succesful MMO ever is and what is the payment model it uses?

Posted: Aug 9th 2010 6:19AM BGExorcist said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Well Magus, I guess you might be right that F2P games combined have more players than P2P. Let me see.. if there are 200 F2P games, and 20 P2P, maybe you just got that thing right eh?
And if one players registers in 20+ F2P games /Like me/. Whoah, impressive indeed. People come and go in f2p alot more often than P2P, somebody discovered the hot water.

What F2P game do you play mate, i see most of the comments here are yours. Didnt read them all so sorry if you already mentioned somewhere on the threads. Would like to know why you wasted 10 liters of saliva here /if this was actuall talking, that is../.
Reply

Posted: Aug 9th 2010 9:19AM Celeras said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Tempes, are you being serious right now? They have more 'registered users' because the vast majority of people sign up, play for twenty minutes, and then never play again. You really want to be putting that type of experience as a 'check' in the F2P category?

Give me a break, you can't possibly think that even compares to a subscription number..
Reply

Posted: Aug 11th 2010 7:58AM ShawnSchuster said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I just got around to reading these comments. Lawls. The whole "your opinion is wrong" debate never gets old. If you don't have a strong opinion on a topic, you must be scared of something!!!@11!1

It also proves my eternal theory that people read what best fits their agenda, not what's actually written. I love my job.

Featured Stories

Coming soon
Engadget

Engadget

Joystiq

Joystiq

WoW Insider

WoW

TUAW

TUAW