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Reader Comments (39)

Posted: Aug 4th 2010 6:09PM rhorle said

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The blizzard expansions once every blue moon makes it sound more dire then it is. They change and add new content with every major patch which happens multiple times in between expansions.

Posted: Aug 5th 2010 11:39AM (Unverified) said

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Free to play is like a bar with no cover who poor generic liquor into empty top shelf bottles!
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Posted: Aug 4th 2010 6:12PM nomoredroids said

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I only read 5 misconceptions! Where's the other half of my article? :)

Posted: Aug 4th 2010 6:34PM niakori said

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Um.. joint venture, mmorpg.com

I really liked this, even though you guys shared the same views often. Remember, conflict is entertaining. I say I can't wait to see more of these collabs.
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Posted: Aug 4th 2010 6:38PM Synthetic said

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The articles and list presented therin don't really seem to debunk the 'misconceptions' put forth through word-of-mouth. Rather, they're just curbing the hyperbole generated by gamers - all groups of people, really - and stating, "Hey, it's not a rule. It's an unfair generalization."

Most of us can figure that out on our own, I think. If someone we know comes back from a movie or gives us a heads up on a game with something akin to "It blows huge whale chunks. Fail train coming through." That's gonna be taken with a grain a salt.

Bravo on making us look twice at F2P. There is a stigma there that won't be wiped away anytime soon, but one that is deserved less and less as many companies move towards that business model.

Posted: Aug 4th 2010 6:48PM timthel0rd said

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I gotta say, I pretty much agree on all points.

The only game I've played that didn't feel grindy (we're talking MMORPGS) was Warhammer Online. And even that there was still grind, it was just fun. Leveling through pvp, for me, was the best thing I've ever done.

The spyware one is just ridiculous.

So is the spam/goldbot one. Look at Aion at release, had to disable chat because of the ridiculous gold spam.

About the asian one, even if it were researched and proven true, what the hell does it matter?

And the update one, I can't really remember, but I don't believe any F2P games I've played have been under-updated.

Posted: Aug 4th 2010 8:06PM Samael said

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Read both the articles.

It basically says "well the misconceptions have some basis, but wait not every one of them is like that." I think the complain that the writers have is that people are generalizing and blanketing. Well there is a solution to that, from now on we can just say "overwhelming majority" or just "majority" the latter taking just 50.09% of the games to have the characteristics to be justified to be used.

Not all F2P games have every single high level player as paying players. But in majority of F2P games there are an overwhelming majority of the high level players who are big spenders.

As for the games being grindy, yes P2P games are grindy, but it is a different grind, not an uncomfortable grind, rather the majority does not have an uncomfortable grind. While I would wager a majority of F2P games have uncomfortable grinds, or rather unnecessary grinds.

For the people wondering why all the semantics here, please read the part posted in the MMORPG.com.

F2P games need to make money just like every other game out there. Where does that money come from? Simple, the cash store. Hence they have to make content that nudges players towards buying from that cash store. And remember that F2P makes a lot of money according to the article, they make a lot more money in the F2P setting because they can nickel and dime. People do not care much that they are spending $2 here $5 there, but soon it adds up and good Lord in heavens we have people spending more than $15-$20 a month. The reason for this price model is because it is profitable. It is profitable for the companies, not for the user who is being nickeled and dimed.

I do not begrudge the companies making money. It is their right to make money. But as a consumer it is also my right to say how much I am willing to pay. I have the right not be nickeled and dimed if I do not wish to be, and to stand against it. Let them try and make their money off of me. They have nothing to offer which I am willing to pay to money to play.

There are extremes on all sides, both F2P and P2P. I find it annoying that F2P people have to continuously shove F2P in my face. Lets take Tempus Magnus for example. He/She takes every single opportunity to put forth arguments for how awesome F2P and how utterly stupid P2P is. Hey, buddy, its cool you like that model, good for you, it just ain't for me. Acting like F2P is the second coming of Christ is extremely annoying. F2P is not the savior of our proverbial soul, it is not as clean as you guys seem to make it up to be. None of you guys are willing to look at the shady side of things, just carry on singing the merits and hope people will not look too far. It is sad when writers of a news/blog service have to try so hard to convince others that F2P is the best thing since sliced bread.

I personally hate F2P, every single game I have seen of F2P I have hated. I hate having to pay for 1 item at a time, or 10 potions at a time. I would rather everything be included at a singular price for me to enjoy.

I will stop playing MMOs the day every single P2P goes away.

Now I do not have a problem with hybrid models such as the ones provided DDO and LoTRO (though I have to check out LoTRO for myself to be able to comment on it, being that it was my favorite MMO). But they are still not my ideal choice.

What I would like to see is simple:

Have at the very least 1 server with no cash stores, just a pure sub world. If it is a game that requires PvP and PvE, then have at least 2 servers fulfilling that task.

The rest of the servers can have whatever they want according to choices of the players.

Why can no one provide me with that choice? I do not mind paying more per month. And if your come back to this is going to be "why don't you just spend the same amount in the store?" then please do not bother. As I have said I want it all for a set price.

No one seems to ask what happened to choice. Its cool that you guys get your choice but I do not get mine? What kind of a choice is that? We as humans are inherently selfish, we only look at the things that please us and forget that there is another side that has wants and needs which are different than ours.

Lets give everyone a choice, let them choose and decide.



Posted: Aug 4th 2010 10:03PM Its Utakata stupid said

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I'm not sure about the ad hominem on Tempes Magus, but you hit it mostly home for me about why I distrust F2P's in general, Samual. Wonderfully thoughtful. :)
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Posted: Aug 5th 2010 1:06AM Samael said

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I do not know who will read this, but Tempus, it is too blatant to see how you defend the F2P model. As for singling you out, well look at the number of replies you have to a F2P thread. And every one of them somehow points out how stupid and dumb the P2P model is. I am sorry if you took it that personally. As for intelligence, I never attacked yours, nor did I say anything bad about you. Just that your arguments for and defense of F2P can get very annoying. It says nothing about you as a person. As for the community figuring out who is the more intelligent one, I think they have.

And I never brought around the question of being rich or poor. Such things are not public discussion. I can afford what I can afford. I am not saying that P2P is the only way.

I do think there should be choices. That was my argument completely. I believe in choices for the consumers. The fact that articles like this come off as defending a payment model of all things, is sad sign of how the market is right now. All I am trying to say is that F2P is not the best thing to happen since sliced bread. These websites spewing and shoving F2P and cash stores down people's throats is not the future of MMOs, or rather MMOs that I would like to play.

As I have mentioned, not a single F2P out there appeals to me. They are AAA MMOs, and I refuse to put my money into them. Just like I refuse to give my money to Cryptic and their ilk.

I hope that the companies offer me choice. But that seems unlikely being that most people are willing to be nickeled and dimed. There is a reason why F2P is becoming so popular, the companies can earn money by the boatloads. The way they do that is through MTs, as I have said people do not notice $2 here $5 there, but it eventually adds up and we have people paying over $20-$30 a month to enjoy the level of content they could get in a P2P for $15/month. That is how the business is working.

I am sincerely hoping that F2P stays, but it stays away from me and lets me have a P2P model. I hope some developers recognize that there is a market for a P2P model and that people are willing to pay a higher price for a good game.

Well I hope you enjoy the F2P model and hope it gives you everything you are hoping for. I do not enjoy it, I will not support it. And I sure as hell hope that the P2P model can stay as well or else I am done with MMOs, not that anyone cares but seeing as I love MMOs I really do care.
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Posted: Aug 4th 2010 8:07PM Samael said

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And that is the problem I have with most people who are proponents of F2P.

Posted: Aug 4th 2010 8:19PM Controlled Chaos said

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@Samael

It's the exact same for proponents of subscriptions. It's safe to say that both sides have their extremists. One side is no better than the other.

Posted: Aug 4th 2010 8:21PM Controlled Chaos said

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I think the article was good. Nicely done, Beau. It's good to see someone who can accept the positives and acknowledge the potential negatives of F2P instead of coming across as a raving extremist in their writing. Objectivity in one's topic and logical reasoning for the win.

Posted: Aug 4th 2010 8:51PM Pingles said

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I like these joint articles for one main reason:

Reading their comments make me SO thankful for Massively.com.

Posted: Aug 4th 2010 9:09PM Hurbster said

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I had to chuckle when I looked at the cash shop question in the other half of the article and there was a Allods Online banner....

Posted: Aug 4th 2010 9:41PM Jade Effect said

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With regard to Point#4 : Gold spam

Gold sellers naturally move to games that are popular, regardless of whether they are f2p or p2p. Allods Online and Aion had a lot of gold spam before gPotato and NCWest respectively made changes in the chat mechanics that made it harder for people to spam.

Atlantica Online did not have much gold spam, except possibly in the hub city Rome. However, the cash shop gambling system caused the economy to spiral out of control, since it's cheaper to simply buy gold and then buy that hydra mount from another player, rather than to gamble on whether you can get the hydra on the 3rd, 50th, or 100th box you buy from the cash shop. I think we can agree gold-selling spam is a much smaller problem compared to gold-buying fueled runaway inflation where items cost hundreds of millions and are out of the reach of normal players.

The game mechanics also has a huge effect on whether gold farmers/spammers become a significant problem. In Mythic's Dark Age of Camelot and Warhammer, gold doesn't have much use. I've heard of gold farmers who went into Dark Age of Camelot, farmed a hell lot of gold, then quit because nobody really needed to buy gold. In US Lineage II however, adena is very important and the adena farmers flourished very well. NCSoft would commit financial suicide if they made serious efforts to eradicate the farmers.

Posted: Aug 4th 2010 9:49PM godly967 said

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What games are those screenshots from?

Posted: Aug 4th 2010 9:50PM Its Utakata stupid said

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I too agree with Zeowyrm...though I found the article though informative, it was borderlining on being a bit too apologist for my taste. I would like to see an article, that gives the otherside and addresses many of my big concerns with F2P's, such as a culture of unequal gameplay footing relative to the players' income circumstances.

Posted: Aug 4th 2010 10:17PM Beau Hindman said

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Thanks for all the comments so far, guys!

The screenshots are from Shin Megami Tensei: Imagine Online, Alganon and WURM Online..in order.

Beau

Posted: Aug 4th 2010 10:29PM Its Utakata stupid said

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As I mentioned...kinda of intersting article.Though one thing I noticed from this and other articles such as this, one game which seems sometimes conveniently ignored by the pro-F2P camp: Guild Wars.

This amazing little game seems to be at an oddity to cash shop focused F2P's...since it's main stay of income is the game itself, expansions and a modest vanity shop. This gives the player full access to the game dispite their income disparity which is best world of sub based games. If all F2P's where like this...I would likely be buying them in a heartbeat. Though admittedly, I'm not sure how successful that F2P model is. And likely requires the studio to put out Blizz like love and development in order to make it work. That being said, ArenaNet has obviously made enough capital to keep GW going all these years and put out what looks to be impressive and ambitious sequal. I sincerely hope this F2P model becomes contagious as it's item mall'd counter part. Just saying...

Posted: Aug 4th 2010 11:02PM (Unverified) said

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I always find it a bit strange when people talk about Guild Wars' payment model as being something new and different. It's the model that every NON-Massively Multiplayer Game has used since.. well, since forever. Multiplayer FPS, multiplayer RTS, the model has always been "you buy the game, and you play online for free". It's only in the MMORPG sub-genre of online gaming that this model is unusual.
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