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Reader Comments (19)

Posted: Aug 2nd 2010 6:37PM Superfan said

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For a game with a tone of zones they give us...another zone. Well, I am on board for GR and will re-sub when it hits but, wow, I am not expecting much. Do these devs not get it? Giving us the same old stuff with an updated look is not going to cut it. When is DCUO coming again?! :)

Posted: Aug 2nd 2010 8:07PM Maraq said

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Ultra mode on a game that is not even sli compatible anymore (Nvidia dont support the old sli method CoX used to use)... what is it with devs nowadays that seem to be making basic mistakes over and over again at the moment. It seems to me that the competition is hotting up mmo-wise and the default reaction is "quick, shove something to distract the players from ingame problems, give em new and shiny toy!" /rant

Re the sli issue, its up to the devs to keep moving with the graphics card developer. If the graphics card devs stop supporting the old method of sli, move with the times and get your game compatible with what they *do* support. Dont just blame the graphics card devs. Its *your* priority to keep the game alive, not nvidia. This glorious quote from Positron, one of the head honchos for this game...

"Also noteworthy is that Ultra Mode does not currently support SLI configured cards. We’re working with NVidia and ATI about this, but you all can speed up the process by contacting NVidia and ATI about updating things on their end to get it to work." So, a more demanding graphics option that isn't supported by the most commonly used method of meeting that extra performance requirement. Hmmm... does that sound like a winning combo?

Re the new zones comment above. They've said in the past that fixing/improving an existing zone is the same mount of work as creating a new one from scratch apparently. So they see more "gain" for the game by creating a new zone. I understand their logic, but i cant help but think they're missing a trick here. We love a lot of the existing content and zones, i cant help but feel that they should make more to do in whats already there, without needing a new zone that empties out and disperses the inhabitants of the old zones. Thats my personal opinion only anyway, just that. I have ideas on what extra activity they could put in but thats not the point of this post.

I love the CoX game, and have kept my sub active even when i moved onto other games when it started to wear thin. The community is the best i've found, and i still occassionally pick it up and play, hoping the community stays and the game gets better. I hope this game survives and keeps its edge and stays competitive in the light of the growing number of other superhero mmo's out there and coming.

Over and out.

Posted: Aug 2nd 2010 9:03PM (Unverified) said

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@Tempes Magus - 'hotting up' is commonly used in the UK (and perhaps elsewhere); not all of the Massively readers are in North America. ;P
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Posted: Aug 2nd 2010 10:13PM (Unverified) said

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LOL, actually I'm from the US and never use 'hotting up', but hear it used all the time on UK programs. You want to argue grammar, take it up with the English folks, they sort of invented the language, so they can use 'hotting up' if they want.
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Posted: Aug 2nd 2010 9:25PM MtthwRddl said

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I keep seeing the following excuse used to give CoX a leg up on DCUO:

"Also, DCUO has stated there will be no side switching/morality system in their game despite the precedence for such actions in comics and the desire of superhero mmo fans for the system."

Although there are instances where super heroes become villains and villains become super heroes, it is very rare none the less for that to happen. For most DC comics, this doesn't happen. You could say that Red Arrow going rogue is a good example of this, but he is still very much a good guy and will be back on the JLA sooner than we know.

This isn't a good excuse because most superheroes don't change sides. Unlike what is going to happen in CoX, where most of the people are going to change sides, which isn't comic accurate. These CoX fans just want to make DCUO, the game that could possibly knock every other Superhero MMO out of the water, not sound as good.

The truth is that because CoX is an older game, there are less resources being diverted to it, meaning that it will take longer for large expansions to be created for it. DCUO comes out in November. They could have a brand new expansion ready for Christmas 2011. CoX probably won't see another big expansion, the size of Going Rogue, for another 3-4 years (in my opinion), if they have another one ever. CoH came out in 2004, CoV came out soon after in 2005 (one year later expansion), and then 5 years later, Going Rogue, the next true expansion to the game, is coming out. I think in another 5 years, CoX will be barely a topic. It will have gone F2P in 2 years, possibly sooner if Going Rogue flops, and DCUO will be where CoX is, possibly doing better.

The license itself will bring in an enormous amount of fans and they can advertise the game in millions and millions of comics printed each month. No other (serious - marvel kid happy fun day mmo doesn't count) superhero MMO can compete with that kind of advertising.

Going Rogue comes out 3 months before DCUO. That gives it plenty of time for the players to get excited and then get bored and jump onto DCUO when it goes live in November.

I can't say for certain that DCUO will be a great game. Champions Online showed promise and its not doing that well at the moment. But with such a license, I kind of doubt it is possible for DCUO to do that poor. There is so much money behind the MMO and I think that will make a difference in the quality of it and how able the developers are to fixing the problems with it.

Posted: Aug 2nd 2010 9:42PM Jeromai said

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I'll be happy if DCUO does well. Having real competitors in the genre would light the burners on both sides to keep progress going.

Despite not being keen on the DC lore, I am very curious about the dynamic content system they will be using. I'm a big fan of innovation, and one of my pet peeves is static NPCs who sit there passively with a symbol over their head waiting for the player to click on them. Have things happen! Ask me for help! Threaten me so I can react! It'll go far in promoting the illusion of a living, breathing world.

That said, CoH has never followed the huge expansion style of WoW-type MMOs. They release a little something every 3-6 months, with a focus on being innovative and different from the rest of the flock, and iterate on that. They're approaching Issue 18 or 19 by now, each Issue bigger than a patch update, smaller than a complete expansion. Judging them by huge expansion releases is like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole and complaining about it. Different game companies, different development plans.
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Posted: Aug 2nd 2010 9:31PM Jeromai said

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Oh noes, they're giving us content!

First, people complained because the devs were too busy focusing on 'systems' every -free- update and incorporating fancy schmancy things like Inventions, Flashback, Arena and Zone PvP, SG Bases, Mission Architect and demanded plain jane simple content, stories and missions.

Now there's a 1-20 zone coming out with apparently four times the amount of missions you'd expect in a zone, dialogue choices, a Morality side-switching system, merged markets, a couple new powersets with new graphics and animations (dual pistols and demon summoning are still considered new for those who didn't pre-order), expanded world lore with two major factions chock full of roleplaying shades of grey, an attempt at spiffying up the aged graphics with new graphical tech and you know, "pfft, it's -just- one lowbie zone of content," say some players.

If only other six-year old games had this kind of attention lavished on it. Why the CoH devs try to make us happy, I don't know. Masochists, the lot of 'em. :)

Personally, I know what will renew my interest in this game. When they manage to redo the mob spawning system so that it's not so predictable in location and types of mobs that will turn up based on group size, and maps where the scenery and layout matter. Just quite tired of running through essentially big wide corridors from spawn clump 1 to spawn clump 2 until everything is wiped out.

A couple differently styled missions where sneaking or skipping areas is valuable, or sniping stuff, or distraction or tower defence rather than AoE annihilation would do wonders to vary up the playstyle.

That said, will still be checking out GR for whatever content the devs did manage to give us.

Posted: Aug 2nd 2010 10:10PM Maraq said

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@Tempes Magus
"hotting up" is indeed a common term in the UK, it certainly doesn't need a language nazi correcting it. (and thanks to Wade on that count).


Ummm... i wasn't criticising CoX's stability. And i've never played WoW, except for 3 hours, and hated it. But i wasn't comparing CoX with other games anyway.


All game developers, and fanbois, say this. Its not an achievement. Its an expectation of anyone whose job it is to compete in a competitive market with their product.


I wasn't attacking them, i was quoting them, and giving my opinion. Your comments are pure conjecture and guesswork. Unless you're on the dev team you dont know what their problems are, or what the overhead to develop new content/zones versus enhancing old content/zones. I'm simply quoting whats been said in the past. Not hypothesising on what their problems are. One thing that is very much an issue thats also been discussed before is that new zones run the risk of splitting up the player base into more fragmented chunks across the game world. Again, its an idea/worry i happen to think might have merit. You dont have to agree, but dont assert justifications for what they've done as fact. Its just your opinion. And thats ok!

Re this...

SLI was *definitely* supported before Nvidia dropped support for the particular version of SLI that CoX used. I used it myself, and configured/experimented with it in detail, so i can assure my knowledge is not anecdotal. *Now* it doesn't support it at all, but thats categorically not how it used to be. I've never used ATI cards so i dont know what issues it did or did not have in the past. I try to speak about what i do know, and thats what i've discussed re Nvidia. The rest of your post on the sli issue changes not one iota what i've said about it. Crossfire is the term for ATI card doubling, but most people would forgive you for you using SLI to discuss combining graphics cards to work as one, regardless of which card brand you meant. Its really not the point.

From this point on
...
I dont really have a comment on any of that. Least ways not at the moment, maybe later.

Posted: Aug 2nd 2010 10:33PM Maraq said

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ok, lets try again, with Tempus comments contained between the // marks, my comments straight after.

//2) City of Heroes is the most stable mmo I have ever played. It blows WoW out of the water when it comes to stability//
Ummm... i wasn't criticising CoX's stability. And i've never played WoW, except for 3 hours, and hated it. But i wasn't comparing CoX with other games anyway.

//3) At least they continue to try to make it better. etc...//
All game developers, and fanbois, say this. Its not an achievement. Its an expectation of anyone whose job it is to compete in a competitive market with their product.

//New zones are much easier to do because you don't have to deal with preserving certain things about an existing zone when no zone exists. etc... Existing content complicates things.//
I wasn't attacking them, i was quoting them, and giving my opinion. Your comments are pure conjecture and guesswork. Unless you're on the dev team you dont know what their problems are, or what the overhead to develop new content/zones versus enhancing old content/zones. I'm simply quoting whats been said in the past. Not hypothesising on what their problems are. One thing that is very much an issue thats also been discussed before is that new zones run the risk of splitting up the player base into more fragmented chunks across the game world. Again, its an idea/worry i happen to think might have merit. You dont have to agree, but dont assert justifications for what they've done as fact. Its just your opinion. And thats ok!

//SLI:
Guess what?
It doesn't even support Crossfire so it isn't just because Nvidia changed how SLI works. It never did support SLI as far as I can tell especially since my own computer I have now actually saw worse performance than my older computer that had only 1 GPU. Yes, my evidence is just anecdotal, but I read on their forums that it doesn't support either system.//
SLI was *definitely* supported before Nvidia dropped support for the particular version of SLI that CoX used. I used it myself, and configured/experimented with it in detail, so i can assure my knowledge is not anecdotal. *Now* it doesn't support it at all, but thats categorically not how it used to be. I've never used ATI cards so i dont know what issues it did or did not have in the past. I try to speak about what i do know, and thats what i've discussed re Nvidia. The rest of your post on the sli issue changes not one iota what i've said about it. Crossfire is the term for ATI card doubling, but most people would forgive you for you using SLI to discuss combining graphics cards to work as one, regardless of which card brand you meant. Its really not the point.
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Posted: Aug 2nd 2010 10:17PM Maraq said

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@Tempus Magus
try not to score points on grammar using cheap jibes about language conventions/slang that exist quite legitimately in other countries apart from the one you reside in. It doesn't make your initial post any more credible and runs the risk of you being identified as a flamer/troll/other ignorable person, not least of all like a silly little kid trying to score points instead of making constructive points.

Posted: Aug 2nd 2010 10:32PM (Unverified) said

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Didn't I see an article on Massively (or maybe one of the other MMO news sites?) mentioning Paragon Studios is working on City of Heroes 2? Probably will be a year or two, but I imagine they must be working on a new version considering how old CoH/CoV is now. But with NCSoft calling the shots, who knows. They are just as likely to suddenly pull the plug, even with a fairly stable number of users.

I'm a big DC fan, or I guess 'was', I gave up comics awhile back when they kept changing the entire universe every little bit. But I'll be giving DCUO a pass. First, the tiny amount of game play footage, if it is even actual game play, looks to have pretty poor animation. The still shots look great, but every video I've seen (not counting the trailer, which has nothing to do with the game graphics) looks, well, not so great. The more info they release about the game, the less I want to play it. No weather? Only two main areas? Can't go inside most buildings? Possibly very simplistic combat?

DCUO has some good features too, but after seeing how SOE operates games, I think it will be cash shop heavily game on top of an over priced subscription. I also saw how SOE pulls devs off of even supposedly successful games (Free Realms) to work on new projects.

It will sell lots of boxes, just based on the IP and that trailer. There certainly is potential to have a bigger player base than games like CoH and CO, just based on the fact it is DC Comics characters and universe. But unless they offer some low cost hybrid payment plan, I'm not interested.

Posted: Aug 2nd 2010 10:41PM Maraq said

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@tempus
//I don't think it ever supported SLI, at least not very much.//
It did, period. And it worked. Very well. Your knowledge, as you admitted is anecdotal. Mine knowledge is based on experience and knowing as fact what i'm talking about, in this instance anyway.

The now defunct sli rendering mode was known as "Split frame rendering". Now you have just three options, Single GPU, Alternate Frame Rendering 1 amd Alternate Frame Rendering 2.

Split frame rendering did not work "just a little", it worked a lot.

Posted: Aug 2nd 2010 11:50PM Maraq said

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@Tempus

Your trolling, but its cool, you're making wrong assertions left and right and trying to cover it. Here we go...

//Ahh, now I remember it did support it, but it didn't work "very well" as you say.//
Sure it did. But thats not the point. Ultra Mode and less support for SLI (actually none), which would be a significant boost to a lot of players, who cant afford a brand new powerful card, but can afford an extra card of the same type they already have. I'm going to try go slow for you, but its clear i dont think i can go slow enough.
Maybe your "memory" was "refreshed by a quick google for something you previously knew nothing about, now i'd provided you with the terms to search for?

//That is why Nvidia changed SLI. It needed improvement because of major problems like that. Why did they change it so much that it didn't work with CoH anymore then?//
Hehe, yeah, "like that". Like most software doesn't need improvements and is perfect first time, its called version control and is a fact of life. Companies dont go "Oh noes! We didn't make it perfect first time! Quick ditch it and never touch it again!" I suspect you googled for the symptoms you described as "tearing", but hey, mess about with other settings and you'll get exactly the same tearing symptoms, so i suspect that your knowledge of the actual problems are as anecdotal as the rest of your knowledge. You're a great parrot though!

\\We can't change it and holding it against the game, when it was Nvidia's fault, is a dumb thing.
You can't fault Paragon Studios for Nvidia's problems\\
Lol, you are a great parrot eh? Positron would be so proud! Its not Nvidias problem at all. That, if you read my first post instead of trolling with inadequate knowledge, is the whole point right there. Its NCSofts (CoX) developers problem. Its their game. Nvidia deems it time to drop support for one of their sli modes that hardly anyone else seems to be using? Its old, and only old games use it *coughs*, like CoX. Why should they prioritise old technology? Thats their business. Why should they care about CoX? They dont. Split frame rendering wasn't as performant as other types of SLI rendering, but it was definitely good enough. Just not as good. It wasn't broken as you imply with only anecdotal knowledge.

But, bless ya cotton socks, thats not the point. Paragon Studios could always use and develop for the other options of SLI that Nvidia do. That would be cool! It would *gasp*, get ready here it comes, cos this *IS* the point, be a rea big boost in performance for those that want to enjoy Ultra Mode at its best without having to buy a hole in the pocket burning new graphics card.

Your comment is actually dumb, its nothing to do with Nvidia, and it is everything to do the game developers.

Its the responsibility of the management and devs of CoX (Paragon Studios/NCSoft) to ensure they move with the times, and stay compatible with the hardware/driver market. Nvidia is the big boy here, not CoX. If CoX was as big a game as maybe EVE or WoW, maybe, just maybe they might be swayed with trying to keep on the good side of the games players. Somehow i doubt the subscription numbers of CoX are very pursuasive.

Now be a good lad, and try to either come up with something relevant other than trolling me cos you had a bad hair day when you read my first post. You're entitled to your point of view, just dont try and twist mine into something its not. Argue with me by all means, but dont confuse your assertions, or other peoples assertions, as facts. It aint so.

Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 12:05AM MtthwRddl said

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I find it interesting that out of 27 (soon to be 28) comments, 15 of them are from Tempes Magus.

Tempes Magus, we've received your feelings on the subject. Thanks for the replies, maybe we should let others speak a little bit. Thanks!

You're so passionate about a game not having the ability to switch sides that you've playing a game that hasn't had the ability to switch sides for 6 years! Wow!

"By the way, most people will only change sides once to be on the side they really want to be."

If we agree that most people will only change sides once, then why not just make their character on the right side in the beginning?

"I, for one, do not like being completely stuck in some other person's idea of what a hero is. I'm supposed to let some mass murderer live to murder again when I know he will escape again? I don't think so."

...

Welcome to video games?

Does CoX let you permanently kill your enemies? I guess that's a bummer to the second guy created on each server, huh? Where's that pesky boss that I need to kill to complete this quest? Oh..., first guy got it...yeah. :(

"A morality system lets you choose what to do in a situation, involving you in the story a lot more."

Are we talking about Star Wars The Old Republic or a Superhero MMO?

I'm just a little confused, because you seem to come down on DCUO for many reasons that CoX can always be accused of. Then you speak highly of CoX, and, well, it's confusing a little bit. *scratches head*

"That's the trouble with using an established universe. You can't innovate or do things that really make sense unless they are already established ideas."

So, Batman can't "Go Rogue" hahahaha, and start murdering all the civilians, because that is really what the fans would like to see. Batman as a terrorist, Lex Luthor plays the role of Jesus Christ, and Joker is a high-school teacher. Wow, that's amazing! And none of this is possible, because DCU is an established universe, where there are no alternative universes, and there are no arcs where some heroes turn evil or get possessed. It's not like the DCU is based off of a comic or anything where that stuff happens, hahahaha.

...

Really? It is? Well, don't bet on it happening! Because lousy Sony will find a way to mess it up, just like they messed up their first MMO, Everquest. That game was a tremendous flop!

...

Really? It wasn't?

Now, I'm totally confused! *shrugs* :)

Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 2:13AM ChromeBallz said

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@Tempes Magus

"Yes, Crossfire is the term ATI uses, but Nvidia invented the concept of connecting 2 graphics cards in one computer.
Most people still refer to Crossfire AND SLI as the one term, SLI. Everybody knows what SLI is and the term rolls off the tongue and is easier and quicker to type."

Actually, 3dfx invented SLI. When they went bust around 2000, NVidia bought it up and acquired the basic SLI technology which they used since the 6000 series - It's based on the 3dfx SLI, and the version CoX uses. Later they started using an iterated design of their own.

Crossfire is ATi's own tech. In trying to compete with NVidia they released it some time later, but it had considerable problems before actually beating a single card configuration significantly. It didn't become decent untill the hd2000 series.

Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 3:58AM Superfan said

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Well, as noted earlier, it is just as much work to revamp a zone as it is to create a new one. I know. However, the noted main point is that CoX already has too many zones. They could have added this new content into existing zones and not made an entire new zone. Instead maybe they could have added 6 or 7 high end TFs/SFs (like the Imperius Task Force in quality if not better), side switching, costumes, end game etc. They did not NEED a new zone. We have too many as it is.

In doing various TFs they could have covered a number of areas. Perhaps a space TF, underwater based TF etc (as many players have asked for). It really seems, sometimes, the creativity is lacking by the devs and the additions are not that 'super heroish'. ITF is great but an ancient Roman theme? Nothing wrong with it but yeah.. The Reichsman based TF/SF? Um, more Nazi themed content. Blech. Get original, people! :)

Anyway, just my opinion. The game is solid but could be so much more.

Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 6:12AM Maraq said

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@Tempus

All you've done is highlight your own ignorance, commenting on topics you know nothing about, especially SLI. That wouldn't be so bad if you at least admitted it, everyone is capable of getting carried away occassionally and overstepping the bounds of their knowledge. But you take it to a whole new level and are like a blindman who wont admit he's blind, who just doesn't know when to stop, even when he hears traffic. And you then label those that might have clarified things for you as ignorant, mainly because they catch you out in *your* ignorance.

"If you don't try it you will never find out if it is better than you think. You probably don't have anything better to do, when it comes to mmos, while waiting until November for DCUO anyway."
Your parting comment is testament to your attitude, implying both that everyone thats commented isn't going to try the expansion (false) and that we have nothing better to do until November (false). Pretty much everyone thats commented has already made it obvious they are fans of the game, just not "fanbois" like you.

You just cant resist either trying to sound knowledgeable or, when shot down because you're simply wrong, making cheap shots to salvage your wounded ego. Its childish.

Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 6:38AM Maraq said

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Now City of Heroes 2 is something worth trying to find out about. It would certainly explain why they might not bother updating the in-game support of sli for the current game.

Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 12:39PM Daemodand said

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I wish the game, the devs and the players all the best, but Going Rogue is underwhelming, especially given the box price. It's officially a "miss" for me. I may pick it up on Amazon once the boxes are put on clearance for a buck or two.

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