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Reader Comments (56)

Posted: Aug 2nd 2010 8:26AM (Unverified) said

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Please don't bring startrek online up like it's a legitimate MMO. I'm still getting over the grief that caused me.
They've never said anything about being the first. Players have been asking for it for years. I know I've been saying since I started playing just after the death of Starwars Galaxies (before your time, clearly, since they also had both spaceships and ground) that what EVE needed most was the social aspect of Galaxies - the ability to hang out with people 'face to face'. Ships lack an emotional connection that people-shapes can invoke. That's what walking in stations is for.
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Posted: Aug 1st 2010 11:25PM davidarmstrong488 said

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Well, that last comment was supposed to be sarcastic. I'm certain the developers at CCP aren't any more lazy than I am.

But that's the thing you see - if you're going to go through the trouble of making a game, you want to do it right. You don't want the game world littered with all your false-starts and half-projects. It looks sloppy. That's what I'm saying.

Posted: Aug 2nd 2010 12:02AM karnisov said

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fleet lag has been an issue even back when i was a subscriber. that was like 3 years ago.

another issue that has been festering for a long time is suicide ganking. there are certain circumstances in which highsec pvp is officially sanctioned. war and kill rights. if a player is using an alt to bypass the intended design of highsec so they can steal items with their main, thats an exploit. pure and simple. if that type of behavior was occuring in any other mmo the guilty player would be banned. yet CCP chooses to ignore it.

They need to take a hard look at how they are running their game and start addressing the gaping holes. the fanboi love will only get you by for so long.

Posted: Aug 2nd 2010 5:58PM Aetrix said

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High-sec isn't designed to be happy-huggy-carebear land. If you've ever been outdoors, you've probably noticed theres not much stopping that guy walking down the street from stabbing you in the face and stealing your wallet. Most don't, though, because they'll have to deal with the cops later. Same goes in Jita.
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Posted: Aug 2nd 2010 12:07AM (Unverified) said

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Planetary Interaction is not fun. Stupid things are missed, like you cannot re-activate all extractors with one click. It is impossible for me to believe that the devs left such obvious and basic things out. The lag has also become terrible, we should be getting weekly dev blog updates on the hunt for lag. Prominent CS experts should be brought on as consultants if needed.

The code is fixable if CCP dedicates the resources. Maybe the entire code base should be re-written. If CCP doesn't step up, EVE will fade out and that would be a true shame because it is a phenomenal game/universe.

Posted: Aug 2nd 2010 12:33AM (Unverified) said

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Incarna has almost nothing really to do with EVE.

We, the eve playerbase, are being used as "paying" beta testers for the software, gfx,char generations and more, for their new WOD game. We get to iron out all the bugs for them, they get to test out their stuff in a live environment with thousands of players at once, and they get us to pay them for the priviledge.

Brilliant reallty if it wasn't so downright wrong. CCP has always sucked ass when it comes to customer support and communication, this is just more evidence.

Here's hoping this is more impetus to Flavien Brebions arm and CCP can really reap the player displeasure they surely deserve.

Posted: Aug 2nd 2010 8:33AM (Unverified) said

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Having had contact with MANY game customer support teams, I can safely say that CCP's *IS* among the best I've ever encountered. There are larger ones. There are faster replies.... and you know what? They both suck. The larger/faster customer support scan for key word and answer based on that. *THEY ARN'T EVEN ALLOWED TO ANSWER YOU SPECIFICALLY*. You WILL get a generic reply even if it doesn't apply to you because they have none that does. You WILL get asked questions they are told they have to ask - even if you already gave that information. And it sucks.
CCP's support has been pretty good, I'm fairly sure my problems are read, and I'm free to argue about it with a *human being* as long as I like. Usually a knowledgeable one. Just because you didn't get your ship back doesn't mean their support sucks. It means that you didn't bug out and it was your own fault.
They don't do phone support, and frankly, that doesn't matter - if you're playing an MMO, you have access to the 'o'.
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Posted: Aug 2nd 2010 2:01PM (Unverified) said

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Druid UK, "Incarna has almost nothing really to do with EVE. We, the eve playerbase, are being used as "paying" beta testers for the software, gfx,char generations and more, for their new WOD game."

Assume much? Unless you can show me a quote from CCP that proves your statement it's nothing but wild assumptions.

As someone else said, EVE's code is getting old. It could be that Incarna is going to end up as a total rewrite of EVE's codebase. Just becuase it's being sold as adding "Walking in Stations" doesn't mean it won't/can't replace the code for in-space activity too. Maybe that's why the name changed as well.

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Posted: Aug 2nd 2010 12:35AM Benicio said

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Thanks for the write up Brendan. I was hoping you'd take a look at this issue in your column.

Posted: Aug 2nd 2010 1:06AM Benicio said

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Some fantastic responses here. Credit to the Eve community. By far the best MMO community I've ever experienced.

Posted: Aug 2nd 2010 1:58AM smg77 said

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Here are my problems with current CCP development:

1. I am shocked at how many devs are working on Incarna and CCP still hasn't explained exactly what it will bring to the game. There are a couple old videos floating around showing some cool graphics but there is zero info about how Incarna will improve the existing game. To me it sounds like a sorta cool idea but certainly not something that would require such a huge number of devs unless it's really going to bring something amazing to the current game. They need to outline, in as much detail as possible, exactly what Incarna is.

2. Dust 514 is going to be a massive failure and anybody who doesn't realize this is naive. Trying to force console players and pc gamers together is *never* going to work. The concept of the game and the interaction with Eve sounds kind of interesting but only if they both run on the same platform. There is nothing in the description of Dust that is going to compel xbox owners to buy and play Eve on a PC. If they wanted to provide a fps angle to the Eve world it should have been on PCs...there is no way a console game is going to work.

Posted: Aug 2nd 2010 3:19AM Dirame said

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I know a few people that don't play Eve who are looking forward to DUST. DUST itself is a game that seems like it can stand on its own with the right things in place. If you think about it Faction warfare is enough to keep DUST player busy for quite a while, with competitive /Co-op missions based on which side you're on.

It doesn't seem like they are forcing link with EvE in any way, they've said many times that players can get by without using DUST mercs but they want to make it that when they do use DUST mercs it would be for good reason.
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Posted: Aug 2nd 2010 8:39AM (Unverified) said

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did you not read the DUST descriptions? It doesn't force EVE players and DUST players to work together - it provides that OPTION and allows both games to influence each other. ... but it defiantly doesn't require someone from EVE to work with someone from DUST.
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Posted: Aug 2nd 2010 3:28AM (Unverified) said

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Dust 514 will be a stand alone product as well of having a limited connection to Eve, they need more products out to help pay for the overhead that is bleeding all the profits of Eve out the window, expanded Shang Hi studio, and of course White Wolf who is working on WOD with nothing to show for the years of effort.

Eve has been in steady decline since Trinity, they got White Wolf shortly after and the originators of Eve put it into the hands of other people. They have slowly striped out more fun from the product then added for years. For instance the changes to the fleet system were nice but the server was never able to handle them Loot Logging, Fleet Finder, etc, since they were added fleet fights went from almost working to the shit storm they have been.

Ever been on a grid with lets say 800+ players? Ever hear your FC's scream manually cycle your weapons for hours? (this means turn off the automatic firing and manually click the buttons, grouping nice, but they will cause you grief in the lag-A-palooza as reloading your guns will fail to work or 1 gun will get stuck not reloading and break the group so that none will fire until you ungroup them.) You know the lag is your friend when you capacitor stops working and you have unlimited cap, usually an action activating a micro drive MWD or weapon would cause this to reduce your cap, not in lag fun time, you get free cap, really the only good thing I have ever seen in a large fleet fight.) Ever know that you are dead and have to wait 30 minutes to return to station in your pod or be waiting to jump into the fight and be stuck on the gates for 30 mins looking a black screen? Happens all the time.

These issues have been there for a long time, years but the flip side this is only about 5% of the entire population of Eve ever see them. Most players make a short lived attempt at living out in -0- space but 95% live in empire or low sec. This is great for CCP because even if the -0- space players give up and quit because of the troubles you always have a new group of players that will take it over, find out the issues, and continue the cycle. CCP have known these patterns for a long time, they aren't motivated to fix them.

If CCP wanted to increase the total number of active accounts they need to change fundamental portions of the game, they know the most fun thing to do is fight but the desire to stay with the free for all system of combat will always create unfair advantage to one side of the fight. CCP lacks the ability to make the changes. What if you knew the best way to win a large fleet fight was to get into the system first and sit there for 5-8 hours before it started, loading the node is key, and still is how much fun is it? When you first experience a large scale fight you might have an image in mind that it will be like the promo movies that you viewed that grabbed your interest, this is not reality.

Reality is that the network bandwidth to keep up with the world wide nature of the player base and actions possibly happening from anywhere in the world at a given moment on a central server is possible but once the player count goes over 500+ everything lags. The recent design changes have slowly pushed it toward making it easier but it will never be enough the game is hard they have made a lame ill advised attempt to Wowify the game but they cant do it with out pissing off people like me who like it hard. So I say embrace us the hardcore or go all the way and make it easy so we will have more people to kill in space.

Step 1) Fix the kill mail system, every time I kill something I should have a record of it, not just the person who got the last shot on the target, you know how hard it is to have a complete honest account of your pvp stats, very hard, I have spent hours copying kill mails from one kill board to another and all the losses, all out of game CCP never provided this to the players it was created for them. I did this because I wanted to have an honest account and see if I was improving as a player. This is a such a basic thing that has been missing for almost 8 years of Eve its really hard to believe they never did it, instead we get the Facebook of Eve Gate. LOL. CCP knows the most fun thing is to kill promotes it in every video they put out and never give you a true record of the work you have done in the game, finding and killing people in Eve is not easy. This basic fundamental mistake at the core of Eve shows that the people at CCP don’t get it, they really don’t.

If this gets fixed I will publish steps 2-30 one at a time, I don’t want to overwhelm all 6 people working Eve’s content.


Posted: Aug 2nd 2010 8:55AM (Unverified) said

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Because what EVE needs is *MORE* encoragement to gank new players who have no idea what they're getting in to.

PvP isn't about numbers, what's why there's no killboard. It's about territory and profit. That's how you keep score.
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Posted: Aug 2nd 2010 3:40AM (Unverified) said

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"In this controversial opinion piece, I dig into the controversy surrounding CCP's recent communication with EVE Online's playerbase and the reactions forum-going players have had."

I generally enjoy the EVE Evolved articles and this article is no exception, but is it really up to the writer of the article to decide whether his work is controversial. :P

Posted: Aug 2nd 2010 7:07AM Brendan Drain said

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Sometimes you can just tell when an opinion piece is going to be caked in controversy before it goes live! This is definitely one of those times :)
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Posted: Aug 2nd 2010 4:14AM (Unverified) said

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I'm a brand new player to Eve, and I'm really worried. I recently left WoW out of frustration with the direction their game was going and started trying out several free titles till I eventually decided Allods was gonna be my new game. that quickly went downhill when I got to a high enough level I pretty much had to start paying... and far more than I ever did with wow.

So I finally try out Eve after all these years. I'd been intimidated by its complexity (yet ironically left wow due to its simplicity) but now that I'm playing that's one of the things I love about it. what I REALLY don't understand is why they would begin adding features that seem to resemble much less intellectually stimulating games like farmville and the sims into their game. I'm too new to even be able to do planetary interaction, but I've seen the videos, and it's not as pretty as farmville, but there's plenty of clicking going on. incarna I can't even really compare to the sims... it seems more like 2nd life or free realms... just walking around playing cheesy mini games or something.

then there's dust 514. now I do happen to play xbox live now and then, but I would imagine most eve players probably don't, or at least don't "dual box" eve and their console at the same time. yet when this game comes out the matches that go on in it are supposed to decide the fate of the poor suckers doing all the clicking on those planets?

now back to the game itself... the only real bug I've experienced so far is the "socket is closed" error that logs me out and sometimes won't let me on for hours at a time... you can imagine how frustrating that is, yet after reading the forums it seems CCP swears they fixed the problem already, which means it won't likely be fixed even 18 months from now!

it might not be their standard MO to dedicate a team to fixing bugs, but maybe that's been their problem all along. it seems these problems are finally catching up, and if they don't do anything to resolve these issues in LESS than 18 months, they're gonna lose many old and new players alike.

Posted: Aug 2nd 2010 8:50AM (Unverified) said

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An MMO is an MMORPG - A Massivly Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game.
That may seme like an obdvious statement, but it seems to go over a lot of people's heads.
The be a good MMORPG a game must:
1. Hold lots of players (Massivly Multplayer)
2. Allow these Players to Interact Together (Multiplayer)
3. Provide a setting that Allows for these Players to Role Play (Role Playing Game)

EVE does these very well - 1 and 2 better than anyone else on the market, and that's not a matter of opinion, no-one else has servers capable of holding as many players as EVE.
3, eve does acceptably well. They put a huge amount of effort into the game world with all the canonicals and storylines, the news... everything like that.
But in the end, there's no down time in EVE. The best MMOs (I still hold Starwars Galaxies, at it's peak, was the best MMO) have places you can go and things you can do that have NO PRACTICAL PURPOSE. Because people do that. In real life. Like, say, playing a game. Incarna will be the social arena of EVE. The place that allows for role playing and messing about. Yes, it's a glorified chat room - and no, that doesn't matter. For truly immersive game play one has to be more than a ship. EVE is a hugely social game. Moreso than any other on the market (that is an oppinion) and being able to sit down with the corporate and alliance leaders while deciding the fate of hundreds of players would be nice, don't you think?

And no, Incarna is nothing like 'The Sims'. For one thing, you only get to be one person. You.


On the other hand planetary interaction: totally agree.

DUST: The suckers on the planet effect the EVE universe right back - but both games are supposed to be quite capable of being played independently and I don't doubt that they are. CCP isn't stupid, just half deaf.
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Posted: Aug 2nd 2010 6:14PM Aetrix said

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I scarely have the time to do the things in EVE that I need to do in EVE even without spending time not playing EVE while I play EVE.
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