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Reader Comments (46)

Posted: Jul 30th 2010 3:52PM starchildren3317 said

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I haven't played EQ2 since 2005. This has actually enticed me to come back to play (at least until SWTOR). In fact, I am thinking of doing the normal paid subscription, but on the extended server. It's not that I want access to purchase items, I actually hate the idea of microtransactions. Its the fact that I can essentially start from scratch with everyone else, rather than come back into a game 5 years later where everyone is end game and so I play for months by myself just to catch up.

Posted: Jul 30th 2010 4:40PM wondersmith said

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As H.G. Wells said, "Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo." Does it really matter whether your teammate raided for his equipment or wage-slaved for it? He is what he is. I myself am on a shoestring budget and will grind in-game for my gear, but I don't begrudge others for buying theirs from the cash shop. Indeed, they're supporting the game.

I do think labeling flat-monthly-fee purists as elitist is inaccurate. Many are idealists who want a world where everyone, king and pauper alike, starts out equal and rises to fame and fortune on the basis of in-game accomplishment. But it's clear from the popularity of gold sellers and powerleveling services that such a world will never exist. If wealthy players can't buy power legitimately, they'll do so illegitimately. I'd rather their money went to the game developers instead of Asian sweatshop owners.

Posted: Jul 30th 2010 5:54PM Dblade said

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It matters because by getting gear through a raid, you are playing the game. When you pay for the raid gear, you are saying the raid sucks and you don't want to do it.

I mean, hell, look at your post. Are you only grinding because you are poor at the moment, and can't escape it by buying stuff? Or are you grinding because you like the game and have fun in it?

That mindset is going to have a corrode your enjoyment of the game. It's like watching a movie in fast-forward to see the good scenes. If you do it, chances are the movie sucked to start with.
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Posted: Jul 30th 2010 11:47PM Dblade said

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Tempus, no offense man but you are getting really out there with some of these defenses of F2P.

You do realize it's very hard to impossible to play most F2P games seriously for only $15 a month right? That the average per month is something like $28-35? So why would anyone push the sub model because it was too expensive? Eventually if you want to play most games you will be spending more than most sub fees.

While F2P early on is a good deal, once you hit midgame or so you are going to either need to sub or spend more money buying content or other things than a sub game. F2P is a good deal for people who want to play a lot of MMOs sparingly, but its more expensive otherwise.

As for "owning" content, I don't see much of a problem. You don't own the F2P content either: if the game shuts down there goes all that content you paid for. The only problem imo are sub MMOs that delete your character after a few months of inactivity, but if you don't play a game in a few months, well...


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Posted: Jul 30th 2010 5:43PM (Unverified) said

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Okay first let me don the flame retardant suit

Why do people keep calling these high profile games? They are low rent MMO's that are barely turning a profit. There is a reason they are going F2P, at this point they will try anything to tap into some of the WoW market, they found out that cloning WoW sure as hell doesn’t work, so they hope to foster addiction by offering a f2p entry. Meanwhile Blizzard stays old school; they make games that actually work and are fun to play, it really isn't that hard of a formula.


The Goggles ...they do nothing!

Posted: Jul 30th 2010 7:07PM wondersmith said

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Success does not equate to quality. Do you think McDonalds sells the world's best food simply because it's the biggest restaurant chain? I quit WoW after a few months because I could play games I liked better for free.

The 5 top-ranked released games as rated by the non-casual players who read the website "MMORPG" are currently Atlantica Online, Eve, LotRO, EQ II, and Guild Wars. Every one of these is already or has been announced to soon be playable without a monthly fee. Those who claim F2P games are trash have it backwards.
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Posted: Jul 30th 2010 7:42PM Audacious said

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Considering Everquest 2 came out around the same time World of Warcraft did, hot off the heels of the world's original most popular MMO, I stopped reading the rest of your post because you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

The genre wasn't born with World of Warcraft.
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Posted: Jul 30th 2010 7:22PM (Unverified) said

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I don't get all the hype about EQ2 or LOTRO going F2P. After all it's still the very same games? Did anything major changed apart adding cash shop and unlimited free trial?

In LOTRO playing completely for free while theoretically possible is more or less for masochists only, because farming mobs for points to unlock something is like a bad paid job rather then entertainment. So very same game, still not playable for free for vast majority, why people will go and pay for it out of sudden?

In EQ playing for free at least to lvl 80 seems more sensible as You do have all the content and quests. Sure You'll be less powerful than cash shop users, but as long as it doesn't matter much for PVE leveling it's okay unlike in LOTRO where after lvl 20 You are stuck with farming mobs, which give sucky exp without rested extra xp. So a bit better deal for free but again will this really bring that many people? At least old players are more or less secure on closed servers.

MMO entertainment is frankly one of the cheapest deals You can get. So if someone doesn't want to pay that 15$ a month, that only means he just don't like it. As simple as that. I really doubt that he'll out of sudden start playing horribly limited free to try versions, where free playing is more a chore than fun., just to pay same amount as in P2P. IMO this is a subtle excuse to double dip current subscribers, call them VIP, give them same stuff they payed for till now and add cash shop to milk them more.

Posted: Jul 30th 2010 8:14PM Jade Effect said

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I agree with your points on LoTRO (never played EQII myself, so I can't comment on those). Any length of time spent playing LoTRO would quickly convince anyone that the primary route of levelling is through questing. Farming mobs give such poor exp that you'd have to pay me to actually endure such tedium. This isn't like Aion where you can actually make some decent exp simply farming mobs, compared to running quests.

I dropped LoTRO some time back. I certainly wouldn't go back just because I'm now given a free opportunity to farm mobs like some gold farmer. The best part, the fun part, the part which game is really proud of is the lore. It's living the story of JRR Tolkien. Playing for free is just depriving yourself of this. Well, until you've farmed enough to unlock the story which is told through the quests.
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Posted: Aug 1st 2010 3:53AM (Unverified) said

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Actually, one of the things that will be free are all the "book" quests that tell the main storyline. It is only the other quests that you have to pay for. That said, it would be very hard to level without paying for any quests, and you would have to grind a lot of mobs to advance enough to keep up with the book quests level wise. And you would have to buy the expansions (just like you do now) to continue the main story after level 50.
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Posted: Jul 30th 2010 8:16PM Jade Effect said

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I'll just laugh at your claim that EQII and LoTRO are clones of WoW. Seriously, did you even touch either game?

Posted: Jul 31st 2010 2:37PM wjowski said

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...EQ2 definately borrows heavily from WoW, and this is coming from someone who played both games. Right down to having gryphon flight points.
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Posted: Jul 31st 2010 12:08AM (Unverified) said

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Last Eq2 expansion I bought was Shadow Odyssey. I quit EQ2 when it was stated there would never be RTM on any non-exchange servers, and then they put Station Cash on every server. Now after saying EQ2 would never be F2P, a month later F2P is announced.

Now, since they think F2P is the way to go, I'm willing to give them the chance to prove it, as soon as:

1.) Every character, item, skill, and coin I had on Antonia Bayle is copied to the F2P server.

2.) Any race, item, quest, achievement, trophy, etc., that I played/had on AB is playable and present on the F2P server. That means if my characters aren't one of the four "free" races or one of the "free" classes or professions, tough cookie to SOE, they better be available to me. My subscription money over the years paid for those races/classes/etc., many times over.

3. And they should be happy knowing that even when they do this, I will never be spending one dime on ANYTHING in their shop. Free to play = I will play for free.

Actually, number 3 is optional. I don't really give a flying fuck if they're happy about it or not.

But until then, my old sub will continue to rot, as it will never be activated again; and I will never partake of their F2P server, where I would otherwise have at least provided the people dumb enough to pay the item shop someone to group with.



Posted: Jul 31st 2010 1:34AM Ayenn said

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Some of the people here are claiming that the people who want to keep EQ2 as a sub based game are elitist. Do you even understand the meaning of that word? Do you understand that the EQ2 "free to play" is a farce? Do you get the fact that the EQ2 free to play is not even a freemium but is in fact far more expensive than the standard sub that is in operation now? Do you not get the idea that the gold ($15 a month) and platinum ($200 a year which comes to $16.67 a month) level of "free to play" are not actually free to play and does not actually give purchasers full access to the sub game as it stands now?

You will spend more money playing EQ2X and not even get everything the current sub system offers.

This is an NGE scale blunder.

Vote me down, I really don't care. It will only reinforce how right I am and how unintelligent you are.

Posted: Jul 31st 2010 9:22AM Ayenn said

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Looking at the post below by CloudWOmega I will clarify that what I am addressing is access for current players who are under the current monthly sub system. It is those people who will be effected in the way I have described.

If you think for a second SOE will not apply their bougous free to play model to all other servers and push it on all current players you need to stop with the crack smoking. Why would SOE, specifically, not make a push for more money by forcing this system on everyone? No matter what anyone from that company says that implies they are not going to do it, they will. within a year of the EQ2X going live they will apply it to all servers and to all subscribers, period.

Sure, you will be able to play and not pay but you won't be able to do crap.
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Posted: Aug 1st 2010 12:16PM Ayenn said

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"I still think the P2P players are elitist when they say things like "keep the F2P smacktards off my servers". They're just stereotyping F2P players as less than human which is as elitist as anything else I have ever seen."

Yeah, to a point it is stereotyping, I completely agree. I will say, though, the culture of P2P and the culture of F2P are very different and dominantly incompatible. Both sides of the fence see the other as being elitist.

The F2P side sees the P2P as being elitist because of their willingness to devote time to playing a P2P MMORPG in lue of other activities or interests. P2P sees F2P and being elitist because of the willingness or their ability to spend a considerable amount more money to "pay to win". A good number of people on both sides see the other as being wealthy IRL citing that is the reason they are willing to play their preferred subscription model.

Buried in all of this is cultural expectations of a MMORPG that are very different. One side clearly feels that items and abilities of any kind should be earned through game-play and that nothing that enhances game-play should be separated out and sold. The other believes that equal access is best derived via ala cart services and the ability to buy what is needed with real money when necessary.

These differences in culture are deeply as odds. Because of these intrinsic expectations of what a MMORPG is supposed to be and what it means for an embedded active culture they should not mix. It will only cause strife on mixed servers.

This may not be the case with DDO and might not be with LoTRO But it certainly will be with EQ2 and SWG (when SOE does that conversion).

In light of this I really think Cryptic has struck a good middle ground with CO and STO. Enough so that I highly doubt Cryptic will ever do F2P. They don't need to. The c-store is picking up the slack from a lack of increase in traditional subscription price.
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Posted: Aug 2nd 2010 2:31AM Ayenn said

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I'm not saying F2P is bad. I am actually very neutral on the topic. It works for some games and some players just as P2P does. I am only relating my experiences on both sides of the divide line and am only referencing what I have read and herd.

The tensions will not relax. There will always be this cultural divide for a goodly number of people.

I personally have yet to play a true F2P MMORPG. Every one that has declared to be a F2P MMORPG really has not been, not even GW. Some of the lack has had to do with semantics of definition others are just advertising schemes. As long as any amount of content is locked away behind some kind of MT it is not F2P, a simple fact. You can play and not spend any money but you will not have access to the whole of the game. you are in fact just playing a perpetual demo.
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Posted: Aug 2nd 2010 8:24PM Ayenn said

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Dreams are good, really, they are.

I'm not saying there is not viability in GW style F2P. What I am saying is there is not viability in GW style F2P for something with the depth of EQ2. Terminal box sales prevents that possibility. In comparison GW is incredibly shallow. If people want depth of play and continued increase of that depth of play they will have to pay premium prices in subscription fees to have that.

I have spent a lot of time working on the economic aspect of developing MMORPGs. Deep MMORPGs do actually require a lot more money than fire and forget style MMORPGs with little to no continued development.
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Posted: Jul 31st 2010 2:26AM (Unverified) said

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let me tell you all one thing. free to play does not cost more then subbed games PERIOD

in all my 10+ years of online gaming i have never paid once for a F2P game. let me put those numbers out for you. i have paid 0$ per year on F2P. i dont count GW as a F2P its a B2P (buy to play) WOW is a B&P2P to me. anyway, free to play is my favourite (after buy to play actually) between P2P and itself. why? because i chose everything by my budget and even can choose not to pay ever. it does not lock me out because i have no money. all these tales about F2P having a cost higher then P2P is nothing but a Myth. its cost is what you pay nothing more.

"but, others will have butter things!"
so what? i dont care about their E-peen, for me its partly the journey and the friends i make and the guild i possibly have that makes it fun. its not about being the best. Of course this generation kind of forgot challenges are fun.

TL:DR?

P2P costs more, if you want F2P costs zippo

Posted: Jul 31st 2010 2:39PM wjowski said

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Of course your also overlooking how F2P affects game development, as developers struggle to balance keeping the game fresh with deciding what gets stuck behind the 'velvet rope' so to speak.
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