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Reader Comments (45)

Posted: Jul 26th 2010 4:19PM (Unverified) said

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Heroes saved GW for me. I was about to quit from frustration of filling a group from dying guild.

Posted: Jul 26th 2010 4:20PM Sethisto said

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I played a ton of guild wars pre heroes, then rejoined when they came out with nightfall. It really is a whole different game. I used to tell everyone how hard factions was, and how many times i'd wipe on each mission before finally completing it.

I talked some people into playing with me from factions on. All 3 of us grabbed some heroes from nightfall.. what a difference. We blew through the campaign. I had the perfect hero builds due to farming piles of skills from my 4 other characters. They heal 10X better than any real healer would, and interrupt everything with side mesmer skills. Eventually I broke off into full on hero teams, with 3 necro/ritualists spamming spirits and minions. They just do things better than a human ever would.

On my dervish, i ended up getting a "perfect" scythe in a 1 month lockout treasure chest in the newbie area. this was something I would never upgrade, and I still had the entire campaign ahead of me. Despite how cool that sounds gearwise, it really was a downer. My character was maxed.. so It would just be game progression. But heroes changed that. Suddenly I had 10 more characters all tied to this one to max out. It made getting loot much more fun.

But I see the downsides. I did enjoy prophecies back in the day. I only ever used henchmen for 1 or 2 of the missions, everything else was with other people. I made some friends and had a blast.

But after so many years of awful pugs in WoW/Eq2, I seem to have shifted to a new style of playing these games. The idea of pugging is almost alien, I always just bring people I know or try my damn hardest to solo whatever it is. Inviting some random tank that will probably pull slow and fail at picking up adds, or a healer that doesn't know how to heal is just not worth the time investment anymore.

It's sad really. I sometimes wish I could return to the newbie mindset i had when i first started MMO's. The excitement of getting a group together right at the entrance of hythloth and taking on the balron at the bottom.. or a velks lab grinding group where I didn't care if the tank pulled fast as long as I survived. Now days its all about efficiency and skill, and my inner frustrations can't ignore bad players anymore.

Posted: Jul 26th 2010 4:20PM (Unverified) said

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I love MMOs, and I've been playing Guild Wars since proph came out. I am social to an extent but many years of pugging has made a bit frustrated with it. So when GW added heroes I felt like I could finally play the game the way I wanted to play it. I could grab a couple of friends, fill in the gaps with heros, and set out to conquer the world as we saw fit. So to me, heroes made GW even better. Though I can see the other side of the coin, some players enjoy people and pugging a lot more than I do. I don't think heroes ruined GW at all.

Posted: Jul 26th 2010 4:42PM Arkanaloth said

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Heroes are what brought me back to GuildWars. End of PUGS, end of endlessly waiting.. end of people dropping group on a whim.. end of a LOT of problems & drama. I have my game, i can enjoy my game on my terms, and my heroes are solid! Generally I consider them better than the average player. Heroes are awesome, DiscordWay makes them epic.

If my friends are not online it doesn't matter I can still enjoy my game and without the need of pairing up with personalities I would sooner throw under a bus than rely on for my digital success & satisfaction. If something comes up and I'm deep in content I can just park the team in a corner for a few hours and take care of it. My game fits around my life, not the other way around, which is how it should be.

if my friends *are* online then we may group up for kicks. Six heroes running Discord causes enemies to melt like an ice chip in a blast furnace.

Of all the things I don't like about GW2, the removal of heroes is at the top of the list.

Posted: Jul 26th 2010 6:33PM Dirame said

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I feel you on that last statment but in a way for GW2 they've really really tried to compensate for all those things they've removed. We'll have to see how we adjust.
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Posted: Jul 26th 2010 5:13PM (Unverified) said

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"Group 7/8 - LF Monk"

That's pretty much spammed in every outpost/city.

As someone who came from FFXI where a member of my "guild" waited on average, 8 hours to 2 weeks for a party because he was playing an undesired "class" that he really loved, I'd say Heroes are a welcome addition (note: this has changed since I quit FFXI years ago). Unlike henchmen, their levels don't change depending on the outpost you start from. As some others have mentioned you can customize them and play however you like.

As someone who plays a generally unwanted class (Mesmer), I'm glad I don't have to wait hours for a party.

Posted: Jul 26th 2010 4:55PM Controlled Chaos said

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Like the others who have posted, without heroes, I would have quit the game a long time ago. Between having to deal with players who were idiots and didn't know what they were doing, to having to use henchmen who, frankly, have some pretty terrible AI, I wouldn't have been able to tolerate the bloody game for any longer if I wasn't able to get a hold of heroes.

People can say that heroes ruined the game, but you know what? I'd bet you money that they're not running around with groups of henchmen. No, they claim its ruined while using those same henchmen for their own convenience. It's just another way that complainers end up simply being labeled as hypocrites. I've heard people claim the same and, when I ask them if they just use henches, they act like I just spoke the dumbest question in the world. Of course they use them, they said, because they happen to be there.

People can complain until they're blue in the face, but they'll still use the heroes because they're convenient. People need to stop whining about it and deal.

Posted: Jul 26th 2010 5:00PM Azzura said

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I love my heroes - It lets me log in and do things on my schedule. even though you are in a guild, most of the time people are already busy or have done the thing you want to do so many times, they just aren't interested. Yes, I am kinda anti-social - or at least shy and don't like to ask people I don't know to do things. SO I kinda play GW like a single player game, but one where I can chat with friends and guildmates, and buy things I can't seem to find and sell things I don't need.

I also found that planned group events in GW take way longer to get ready than other games I've played. So having a friend join my party, we each bring out our favorite heroes, and go! No wait time. It's also fun to try to down bosses and VQ areas, mixing and matching different heroes and gearing them up.

And if we didn't have heroes....we wouldn't be able to go relax in the hot tub with Gwen after a long day battling Char!

Posted: Jul 26th 2010 5:04PM MrsAngelD said

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My husband and I played through all of Guild Wars with Hero's We had a Guild & an alliance. Sometime we would group and do dungeons like Rragar's Menagerie, the Ooze pit and Slaver's Exile. But for the most part when it was time to really accomplish something it was Him and I and our hero's and we had them well outfitted and knew which one would be best for what. It was a blast and we had many hours of fun playing together.

I don't mind pugging sometimes, my husband on the other hand hates pugs, and for the most part he has a reason to, he's had the worst experiences with them. If it wasn't for hero's we probably would not have spent so much time together enjoying them game, as he probably wouldn't have played.

Posted: Jul 26th 2010 5:07PM karnisov said

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i think the ai henchmen-heroes system is what distinguishes GW from the other mmos out there. and its a good distinction, grouping should be voluntary and not forced. now i just need to get the devs of Puzzle Pirates to grasp that concept. :/

Posted: Jul 26th 2010 5:34PM (Unverified) said

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Forced PUGs are a fast way to get the casual gamer to look elsewhere. I like many other older players cannot sit and play for hours. I appreciate it when I can get into a game and not wait around for a group to assemble. I appreciate features like henchmen. I also find that if you know how to group and are good at it, you rarely have trouble finding a guild or similar to group with.

Posted: Jul 26th 2010 5:36PM Minofan said

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I love heroes, and I'm fairly confident they have contributed greatly to my enduring enthusiasm for Guild Wars.

Sadly I cannot truly empathize with the other camp, as people who LIKE to play pugs can still of course do so AND (in theory) will only be doing so with other people who LIKE to play pugs - it would seem to be the ultimate social gaming filter!
So complaining about there not being enough people to play pugs = complaining that not enough people like to play pugs... and I just don't see the point of that.
Asking people who are having fun with a game to do something they don't find fun pretty runs contrary to what gaming should be about.

Of course plenty of MMOs do seem contrived to minimize/eliminate fun, but that's no reason to encourage the practice. ^_^

Posted: Jul 26th 2010 5:42PM Brianna Royce said

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Heroes saved the game for me. My guildies and I bailed out of Prophecies pretty early on and gave Factions a pass because of the horrific henchmen and mediocre pugging opportunities. The promise of heroes in Nightfall got us back into the game, and we splashed out not only on Factions, but on GWEN and more.

I wouldn't have purchased anything beyond Prophecies, nor still be playing today, but for heroes. Really that simple. I just don't have the time to waste standing around waiting for other people, nor do I expect other people to wait around on me. Group-friendly games that find a way around that -- like GW with heroes, or even WoW with its dungeon finder -- stay installed.

I'd be even happier with a 7-hero system... :)

-Bree

Posted: Jul 26th 2010 5:41PM The Other Chris said

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For me, Heroes made the game just that much more enjoyable and allowed me to Duo/Trio through the game(s) with my friends rather than us having to sit around looking for 5-6 other people who needed/wanted to do what we were working on. It also allowed us to play at our own pace, while chatting over Skype, without having to worry about other players' time schedules.

With GW2, I was somewhat surprised to see both Heroes and Henchmen eliminated. With the change to the open world (rather than an instanced world with a few hubs scattered throughout), I can see where having a 1-man army would cause some issues. However, I would have liked to have seen an option for a single Hero per player to be possible (similar to what SWToR is doing), just because I really like having the multi-character aspect and I think the concept of having a few companion characters to travel with is an interesting option from both a gameplay and character perspective. ;)

Posted: Jul 26th 2010 6:05PM Graill440 said

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So, slap me if i get this wrong.

Guild wars develops a mechanic for those folks wanting quality time by themselves or solo players in general.....However, the counter argument by the "USERS" those people making pugs or running guilds looking for filler material to use and then discard complain about this mechanic? The same people that berate the filler material for not knowing a fight even though they were invited to fill in and the raid guide has no paitience to train these folks, complain?

Sounds like the hardcore folks that use are simply sour because they dont have stepping stones to utilize and must deal with the fallout of their stigma, and attitudes.

Heroes sounds just fine to me. though i never played that mechanic. As for GW2, you dont miss what you never had.

Posted: Jul 26th 2010 6:36PM alzeer said

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if it was non-instanced game, maybe could have ruin it

Posted: Jul 26th 2010 6:39PM (Unverified) said

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Thing I always ask the pro-PUG players - do you really want to have someone in your group that would otherwise have preferred to to play with heroes and/or only with a few known friends.

Besides, a few months after a campaign is released, there aren't that many people to find at mission outposts. Heroes were kinda necessary. Its a bit better now with the Zaishen quests, since it pretty much guarantees a mission hotspot every day. Though, a month into the Zquests, my annoyance with PUGs made me one of those who just put up "LF disco/sab duo."

Which kinda brings up another point - was it heroes, or was it the huge success of herobuilds like sabway, discordway, etc. I notice Livia in the image is a N/Rt with what I bet is Kaolai's Ashes? ;) A hero monk can be better than a hench, but like a lot of hero AI, they're poor at energy management - which of course the necro builds got around.

Posted: Jul 26th 2010 6:39PM cray said

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I think the problem was that you could have entire party of Heroes, that really made both henchmen and PUGS obsolete.

Would've been okay if they limited your party capacity of NPCs to just one.

Posted: Jul 26th 2010 6:45PM Dirame said

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Henchmen are not obsolete when you're going solo. PUGs are not obsolete when you don't want to use henchies; 2 Humans and 6 heroes is not a full group of heroes.
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Posted: Jul 27th 2010 12:08AM wjowski said

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Six heroes? Last I checked you were limited to four per group.
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