| Mail |
You might also like: WoW Insider, Joystiq, and more

Reader Comments (27)

Posted: Jul 25th 2010 2:59PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I wish i was an hero.

Posted: Jul 25th 2010 9:10AM Platypus Man said

  • 2.5 hearts
  • Report
It's a combination of quest objectives (killing something more than rats, rabid bunnies or syphilitic kobalds), decent starting abilities (something more than Throw Rock or Swing Stick) and the visual sense that my character is at least of legal drinking age.

Some MMORPGs that have made me feel heroic right out of the box (even the game had other faults): Age of Conan, Champions Online, Tabula Rasa, and Star Trek Online.

Posted: Jul 25th 2010 9:38AM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Standing in front of the bank with BWL gear!

Posted: Jul 25th 2010 9:42AM HackJack said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Easily dispatching multiple enemies and facing a single, powerful foe that is really challenging.

Posted: Jul 25th 2010 3:28PM Its Utakata stupid said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I think one of the best examples I've seen to illustrate what you are talking about HackJack, is some of the official video clips found in Diablo III. Characters there p'wn through multple mobs *seemingly effortlessly, then gets one on one challenged with a single boss target that keep the player on his/her toes.

*Note: seemingly is a relative term in that I'm told that those multiple mobs can hurt and eat you if you're not careful.

This is a stark difference from most MMO's...where despite you get really cool powers and abilities, your not really a hero but sorta a hero in training. WoW, GW, CoH/V and many others all have this characteristic to them. Where being a "hero" is more mundane concept of just able to get threw the content and perhaps establish yourself in end game (for those games that really have such). But where as one to three mobs can easily overwhelm the player and you mostly have to group up to take down a boss or even elite mobs.

Then again...I think it would be very difficult for an MMO to be designed with your hero model in mind. I think Cryptic (good or for ill) tried it Champions...and it ended up with players blowing too easily threw content with nothing to do at the end but naval gaze and lose interest. Where single player oriented games like Diablo III are more suited to your idea.

...sorry for the tl,dr response. :(
Reply

Posted: Jul 25th 2010 3:32PM HackJack said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
It would be easy to build an MMO with this "model" in mind if the world would be really really big and full of foes. The mental MMO I'm building for several years contains this and I'm pretty sure many people would enjoy it a great deal.

Also never excuse yourself for a tl;dr response. I love them, they're articulate and, well... necessary!
Reply

Posted: Jul 25th 2010 11:56PM Its Utakata stupid said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I can see a way around this HackJack, is to have the MMO heavily instance'd and have it scale to the amount of peeps grouped going into it. The only thing, if it's like the Diablo III scenerio as I used...5 players inside that instance could be dealing with 50 or more mob pullings. I could see this being an issue with extreme CPU lag'age as well as server/client issues. For an example in WoW, see what happens when you zerge all of Ony's eggs within that raid with 25 players standing around...and you'll see what I mean. :)

One thing of note though, GW2 will attempt to have open world scaling. Where as mobs will scale around a dynamic event relative to the amount of players around it. Perhaps and hopefully this will be for more of what you are looking looking for...

...and thanks for the kind words. :)

For simplicity Tempes Magus, I didn't really touch on some MMO's I mentioned being heroic in comparison to each other. But I somwhat agree with you there. And I will add, some class/power choices and gear parity will allow you be more heroic than others within those games. Such as soloing a Death Knght or Hunter with BoA's in WoW. (Some players would refer to these as over-powered rather than heroic unfortunately.) But in general I would not consider any of that being fully heroic as HackJack described.

And just to clarify with Champions though...this goes back to the "scanderlous" nerfbat on day of release of the game, where in beta (open included) was considerabley more "heroic feeling" and easier to play. Though the explanations given for the sudden change was that players where blowing way too fast threw content and left bored with nothing to do. A reasonable complaint...accept the timing of big nerf happened after there was a big push for players sign up lifetime memberships just before release date, leaving many of us highly suspicious of Cryptic's intentions. Either way though, that experiement was a failure least for that game in making a MMO more "heroic"...

...perhaps newer MMO's on the horizons such as GW2, SWTOR, Rift and many more will allow the player to be more heroic, since they seem to be pushing in that direction. I guess we can only hope and see how that actually plays out. :)
Reply

Posted: Jul 25th 2010 9:53AM Pingles said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I am still occasionally caught up in a well-written/executed quest. Testing Zentia right now and did a quest that almost brought me to tears when I reached the quest conclusion. I truly felt like I had helped those characters out, as silly as that sounds.

Posted: Jul 25th 2010 11:28AM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
witty puns obviously

Posted: Jul 25th 2010 11:39AM pcgneurotic said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I can't think of a time when the NPCs involved or the quest objectives themselves made me feel much more than a gamer, but sometimes the execution of the quests - my execution of them - does. Having said that, there many times in EQ1 (and EQ2) when I felt like the big frog, because I identified with my Froglok so much that doing quests for other Frogloks gave me a god feeling.

Posted: Jul 25th 2010 11:40AM pcgneurotic said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
*good
Reply

Posted: Jul 25th 2010 12:17PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
For ffxi the thing that really made me want to play the game were friends. Linkshells (guilds) in that game were tight-knit organizations that had one goal: kill as many and as much NPC goodness as possible.

The common goal made everyone want to participate together and give a helping hand, which in turn, made you feel "Like a Hero" when you could get to a point in the game where people looked up to you.

Eve Online (the other game ive played over a few years) did this by giving you ever better ships. When you flew in one thing, you were all but impervious to certain types of warfare, which in turn, makes you feel superior to the people who would fall to your power :).

In the end, different games have different mechanics that make you feel good and accomplished; though most of the ones that are talked about are good incentives, its really the community that makes you want to play.

Posted: Jul 25th 2010 12:49PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
To crush your enemies, see the them driven before you and hear the lamentation of the women.

PvP always makes me feel like a champ :)

Posted: Jul 25th 2010 1:08PM alzeer said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
sacrificing myself to save the party from 100% wipe

Posted: Jul 25th 2010 1:14PM Faryon said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
With mission- and quest-lines it's those epic stories where you uncover a deep plot and/or have to do something spectacular like blowing up a volcano.

For combat it's being able to engage multiple enemies and sometimes come across one really challenging enemy. (While Soloing)

Group and dungeon content is a bit harder because going up against too many mobs at once just makes the content seem trivial, boring and perhaps even downright confusing. Going up against too few mobs or just one at a time is also not good because seeing several characters hack away at 1 mob for a long time always brings up the picture of bullies slapping away at some poor kid in the schoolyard. So for heroic group content I would say that we definitely need multiple mobs per pull, but not too many. Also scripted bosses and encounters can be really fun and heroic if they are done correctly.

Posted: Jul 25th 2010 1:22PM Dirame said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Defeating a large group of tough enemies whilst breaking multiple sweats.

Posted: Jul 25th 2010 2:58PM Pingles said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Actually, grabbing Aggro from the Healer/Mage in a group always felt great, even if it was sometimes very short-lived.

Although that would be easier to do IF YOU WOULD STOP RUNNING AROUND THATS NOT HELPING!!!!!

Posted: Jul 25th 2010 3:17PM Heraclea said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Some time ago, during issues 1-4 of City of Heroes, it was possible for griefers to pull giant monsters into the courtyard of a place called Portal Corp, which was a level 40-50 zone frequented by characters of much lower level, looking to be power levelled. This was frowned on by the admins. I never pulled them there myself, but when someone else did I found it great fun to either defeat them or pull them back away. Defending other player characters is more heroically fun than saving some NPC.

Since then, I've always had a tanking instinct. When it looks to me like a player is running from a world critter, I routinely try to pull it myself, even if it ends up killing me. Doesn't matter what the game is. Doesn't matter what character I am playing myself. Volunteer tanking is about as heroic as you can get in these games.

Posted: Jul 25th 2010 3:17PM ultimateq said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Prevailing over the oppressive Enforcer's that keep us down!

Posted: Jul 25th 2010 6:39PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
The practical amounts of original content that can be developed on budget and facts of long-term, persitant game worlds will always ensure that the "Hero" feel starts wearing away in time.

I think it is simply a fact of the genre. That the player eventually morphs from "hero" to "just-another-working-stiff" in a game. Gameplay can still be fun at that point but not really heroic in it's feel.

Featured Stories

Engadget

Engadget

Joystiq

Joystiq

WoW Insider

WoW

TUAW

TUAW