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Reader Comments (18)

Posted: Jul 25th 2010 7:43PM Graill440 said

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Eve does not have a complex player run economy, its a bidding house rife with scams. Players are told to "watch out" and "be aware" of players allowed to scam in the games "economy". When the selling is regulated, resources are finite, and items doled out by devs fairly, then EVE can claim an economy, unitl then its simply bidding with thieves inc. Basicaly lord of the flies with a line of lemonade stands on the beach, and most of the yellow stuff they are selling isnt lemonade.

Ye gods, still with the 330k paying monthly claim Massively? You need to pay attention to their own server numbers per month. They cant even get close to that number in any event, and those stating "well not everyone logs on at the same time, or they live in different time zones", guess what kids?, those monthly and yearly numbers are in 24 hour chunks for your convienience, and your average per month is 27k, still in denial?.

Its not a bad thing to have a community that wants to hold onto some semblance of an achievement, reaching a peak of near 65k once over a 24 hour period was great.

Taking 6 years to do that is a great achievment indeed for a niche game, but do not soil it with other numbers that cant be backed up in any way.

Posted: Jul 26th 2010 11:07AM Nickelpat said

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Now is here you show WoW having 11 million players on in one day.

By the way that 67k WAS NOT over a 24 hour period. That was a CONCURRENT user number. That means at once not in a day.

On Earth are items doled out fairly? Not really, that's called communism. Resources are also not finite. I can grow trees, breed animals, grow crops. EVE, like the real world economy also has separated sections. Unlike WoW the markets are not linked. This is what can really allow for the strategy and competition, as prices and demand in the zones differ. Also helping the economy have more life, most items are crafted. They are not all drops that I can just run through a dungeon and get myself in a few days. I need to spend months mining and training skills. So, since the world does not have finite resources, goods and services provided fairly to everyone, ad scams, is it nothing now than an auction house?
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Posted: Jul 27th 2010 12:48AM ScottishViking said

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Who is this clown? Do you go from game to game posting misery and spite? You're like the Eeyore of these boards, Graill.
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Posted: Jul 25th 2010 8:34PM WolvenSpectre said

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The "claim" comes straight from CCP blogs, announcements and Quarterly Reports.

This is from page 8 of the Q1 2010 report ( http://content.eveonline.com/community/QEN/QEN_Q1-2010.pdf ):

" Number of accounts in EVE from May 2003 through March 2010, 30 day moving average. Total number of subscribers is just
under 330,000 throughout Q1 2010."

Or if you would just like to see the chart here is a screen cap of it I did:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/62800/EVE%20Player%20Accounts%20Chart.png

Posted: Jul 25th 2010 8:56PM (Unverified) said

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most people that play eve are stupid when it comes to selling things. the MAJORITY of players have this attitude of "undercut the lowest price no matter what to move this ship/module/generic-item today or tomarrow" attitude when the reality is your only hurting yourself and others that play the game.

for example a few years ago when the federation faction cruisers first came out they were selling EASILLY for 90million isk a pop. the thing is the demand was actually very high and the supply was low so basicly if you ran enough missions to build one of theese faction cruisers you could almost charge what you wanted for them it just took a coupl days to sell them.

then news came around that others were making good money off theese ships. without realizing what they were doing people went into the what is now "standard procedure" of undercutting by millions at a time. they did not realize that the maret was still not able to supply all of the ships that people wanted. nor did they care! so within a month the ships went from about 90 to 50 million becouse people started being uber competiive for no reason. evrybody could have charged that same 90 million(about) and erybody would still sell their ships pretty quickly. instead people started undercutting like crazy it almost diddint matter WHAT the lowest seller was selling his ship for they were gong to beat it! a very lucritive ship became dirt cheap because 90% of the people selling them were acting like they were having a "GOING OUT OF BUSINESS SALE .. EVRYTHING MUST GO" this happens all over eve with almost every item

most people that play eve act like they arent even trying to make any money at all i usually place my items a few million over the average price and they still sell just fine allbiet it may take an extra day or two to sell them but i actually can make money that way.

Posted: Jul 26th 2010 6:11AM Cyron said

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Phillip, that simply doesn't work. If there was more demand than there was supply, and some suppliers were underpricing, then the richer suppliers, or even general traders would have bought the low priced items and re-priced them higher. This strategy works when there isn't a constant influx of lower priced items. If there is an influx however then the relisting doesn't work, and the price drops. This only happens when supply outstrips demand, in which case the drop has nothing to do with "stupidity", rather people simply wanting to unload their item now, rather than list it high and not move it.

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Posted: Jul 25th 2010 9:17PM (Unverified) said

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Actually he didn't state that it was 330k active players, just that there were that many accounts on one server (not to far of a stretch since eve is one server after all, they cant log in to an alternate place. Think of this in terms of wow boasting they have millions of players when that's actually not the case, they are just counting accounts that have been created, active or non active), but yes..he is correct, if not low balling the number of accounts that have been created in Eve so far. As of thier wiki, there was a reported 345k accounts as of May 09 so by now i wouldn't be surprised if it was over 370k. I suggest you read a little before tearing apart some minuscule thing that your not even right about. Even though 64k is the largest amount ever logged on at once, the median amount of people on daily is still around 20k which is larger then any other game server and enough to show a healthy example of a economy that is mostly in the players hands.

Even colleges are teaching economic classes using eve's economy as their simulation model.

As for the scams, yes there are scams in Eve, but the amount that actual occurs is pretty scale to those that happen in real life and your argument is mostly directed at the contract market which is only a fraction of the economy in that game. Ever hear of pyramid scams or credit card fraud? We don't live in a perfect world where people don't attempt to scam millions from investors if given the chance or set up dummy corporations hoping to cheat someone out of a few bucks. The economy that you are describing as the example of a real economy dosen't even exist in this world since human nature gets in the way. Even in a communist country where the government controls the supply of everything it will have those that compete with set prices and attempt to get the upper hand. There is always going to be someone out to get a few more bucks at the expense of others or will compete with the lowest price to get people to buy their items first (hi walmart -.-). I don't know what rock you have lived under but go in to any game and if you look hard enough you will find people that jack up prices, try and form a monopoly on items, attempt to run people out of what their trading, or will attempt to scam. That's not a bidding house, that's an example of real life trading, go watch wall street. How do you think they made their money, by playing fair and keeping everything the same price with competitors both for buying and selling?

Eve is truly the closest you will find to a real life economy in a digital setting. Its just dosen't have a Bureau of Investigation and police to go after the backstabbers. In Eve if you fall for a contract scam, that's your fault, just like its your fault if you fall for one in real life. Other then that, the economy runs on the simple principle of supply and demand, if you don't want to jump 5 gates over for the cheapest price on an item and decide to buy it for twice as much in the system your in currently that's paying for convince, not scamming.

Posted: Jul 25th 2010 9:32PM Brendan Drain said

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No, it's the number of currently active accounts with paid game time on them. CCP's numbers do not include inactive or trial accounts.
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Posted: Jul 25th 2010 10:41PM (Unverified) said

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Misos, neither CCP nor Blizzard are reporting numbers of accounts created. Both are reporting number of currently active subscribed accounts.
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Posted: Jul 26th 2010 6:10AM Cyron said

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Phillip, that simply doesn't work. If there was more demand than there was supply, and some suppliers were underpricing, then the richer suppliers, or even general traders would have bought the low priced items and re-priced them higher. This strategy works when there isn't a constant influx of lower priced items. If there is an influx however then the relisting doesn't work, and the price drops. This only happens when supply outstrips demand, in which case the drop has nothing to do with "stupidity", rather people simply wanting to unload their item now, rather than list it high and not move it.
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Posted: Jul 26th 2010 2:30AM Dblade said

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Brendan, it's wrong terminology. There may be 300k+ characters, but given how many of those are multiboxed alts, there aren't 330k players. EVE is one of the few games where it makes a lot of sense to multibox and it's possible to due to the limited nature of many roles in the game. I'd probably put it at 200kish players. Alts are very prevalent and almost required for many people, and I think they'd average high since there's often 3 accounts used for many things like solo mining or scouting/remote rep.

Posted: Jul 26th 2010 2:46AM (Unverified) said

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The problem with eve economic is that sometime with some gameplay change some item change price and ppl who were on that item niche market are owned
For example with latest expansion, they changed the loot table of npc and a valuable item like the Y-T8 10mn microwarpdrive which was at 2 or more millions isk unit , now drop all the time a,d is now worth 100k isk... i bet the t2 10mn microwarpride producers enjoy this situation...
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Posted: Jul 26th 2010 2:52AM Dblade said

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It's funny you mention the YT-8 specifically.

Remember the Factional Warfare glitch, where it sent all enemy missions to one system? Well one of the missions tended to drop a lot of that specific item. When I was in Huola I used to salvage the enemy missions and steal a ton of those drops. I'm sure others did, and that may be why in part they crashed in price.

It might also be that they drop a lot in regular L4s as a replacement for all the meta 0 stuff they took out. Usually when prices tank that much there is some oversupply somewhere because CCP screwed up.
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Posted: Jul 26th 2010 5:17AM (Unverified) said

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What a surprise: Faill is trolling off topic, droning on an on about user numbers.

Posted: Jul 26th 2010 5:18AM oddshrub said

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It may not be a completely free market but neither is real world economy, and you frankly don't bring up a single point where eve's economy differs from the real world.

Players may not be able to supply as many Dread Guristas modules doing war as they would doing peace times, but it's not like real world conflicts doesn't influences the price of things like diamonds or even oil in a similar way.

As for mineral prices going up doing war time, when new titans needs to be build and such. Heh, don't you think a lot of people made a lot of money on our recent wars?

As for the cartels and monopoly of T2 blueprints, well, look at companies like Microsoft. Even though we all pride ourselves of a capitalistic market, the truth of the matter is that we don't allow anyone to actually "win" via competition because having someone "win" ends that same competition.

Eve's economy isn't as large or complex as a real economy, but CCP frankly doesn't control it anymore than our own governments do. So sure, the market isn't free. But what market is?

Posted: Jul 26th 2010 1:50PM Brendan Drain said

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Of course the real world isn't a free market. The free-market economy is a theorietical market system in which there is no interference from any governmental or legislative force. In real life, every country has its own set of laws and executive bodies governing their economy to keep it working as best it can. The point I was making all throughout the article is that while people talk about EVE as an example of such a free market (and often point to it as an example of how such a system is viable), EVE is not without those same governmental and legislative influence. Just this time it comes in the form of game mechanic changes and such.
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Posted: Jul 26th 2010 2:01PM mysecretid said

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To be fair, though, no one has yet been able to successful create an accurate, predictive model of the economy in games, or in the real world.

Teams of economists, mathematicians, and scientists seek this "Holy Grail" of the economy every day -- not least because 1) the discovery would make you very, very rich, and 2) you'd almost certainly win the Nobel Prize as a bonus.

So, all game economy models are going to be flawed, not least because all real-world economic models (however good they are) are also flawed.

Cheers,

Posted: Jul 26th 2010 2:14PM Brendan Drain said

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I would point out that EVE doesn't have some mathematical model for an economy. The only model EVE has is throwing lots of people with needs and wants together in a shared space with a limited rate of acquiring resources. Players fill in the rest, producing economic models that CCP's Lead Economist Dr Eyjo has said function very much like the real world.

Predicting the market accurately is extremely difficult in EVE and more-so in real life. EVE has a limited set of resources and ways they can be used, so it's a lot easier for one person to know enough about the game to predict the effect a given change will have on the market. What's interesting is that since it's possible to track every single transaction in EVE, including sale and resale, there's a great opportunity to research into a natural economy in action. There are people studying what goes on in EVE's economy in an effort to better understand the real-world economy. I find the fact insights can translate between the two ... More
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