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Reader Comments (29)

Posted: Jul 22nd 2010 8:28AM (Unverified) said

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I'd like bad guys and monsters to not stand around in fields/campsites/dungeon corridors waiting to get killed.

I'd like 'the pull' mechanism to go away. I've only seen 'Blazing Saddles' use it correctly.

I'd like night and day to mean something in game. Different monsters are active, different quests are available.

I'd like reputation to mean more and quests to play a bigger part in defining a character. Paladins stealing gems should be a 'bad thing' for a paladin.

Posted: Jul 22nd 2010 11:27AM Saker said

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Agree completely! Well written.
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Posted: Jul 22nd 2010 8:47AM (Unverified) said

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I think some times people are using the wrong word when they say they want realism in a game. Instead I think they mean they want verisimilitude - a resemblance to reality. They want to have the tools and the freedom to do in the game what's possible in reality - politics, economics, etc. - regardless of how fantastic the setting.

Posted: Jul 22nd 2010 8:53AM Misterlee said

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Realism is not subjective. Real is real, it's black and white.

There is a million mile difference between "realism" and "believable" which is something people seem to get confused with, especially in games. Very little in games is "realistic" but it does need to be "believable" for people to feel any connection or sense of immersion.

Playing a game that is "realistic" would be extremely boring, that's one of the main attractions of games - to get away from the real world for a while.

Posted: Jul 22nd 2010 9:03AM Arkanaloth said

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I tend to prefer a visual realism. I like a more realistic look. I like weapon strikes to really look like they hit the target and environments to appear very tangible... even if they are fantastically envisioned like some of the areas in the Avatar movie you still felt as though it could really exist somehow.

Posted: Jul 22nd 2010 11:29AM Saker said

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Agree! I hate the ridiculously immense crazy weapons some of these games have. That whole style doesn't do anything for me or the sense of immersion I want.
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Posted: Jul 22nd 2010 9:03AM (Unverified) said

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More than just night and day, I'd like full on seasons complete with dynamic wearer systems. When it rains, the rivers get deeper and wider, puddles appear on the groud etc. When it's winter and it snows, snow builds up so that by December there's a healthy coating on the ground. Leaves fall orange and red in autumn. Flowers spring up in the spring. Obviously different Parts of your world behave differently - the snowy zone just has rocks showing and peeking through in the summer. The jungle doesn't get a huge build up of snow. Something like that would make me very happy though, when placed in a full on, well-designed, well-developed AAA title.

Posted: Jul 22nd 2010 9:05AM (Unverified) said

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I don't think many of us want "realism" in an MMO. In almost every other genre Realism is very important (I don't care how much damage your rifle does, I shouldn't die in a shin shot).

If you talk about realism in an MMO you run into double standards, buildings need to be bigger, your character cant run all day, especially in armor. female avatars would need abdominal organs and coverage for those parts to (god knows no one is shooting an arrow at your shoulder when your breastplate and abdomen are exposed). No matter how high your armor or defense are this "dragon" out weighs the tank so much he would just get displaced anyway. Your armor would deteriorate over time, your character would die of old age. you wouldn't be able to carry 100 bottles of milk.

I think the notion of Realism is confused for validity in an mmo world. Well there's grass and plant life. soooo.. wheres the rain? where do my characters sleep at night. Wait.. now I am in the desert and its raining here too? Why doesn't my horse need water. How many times in a row can my character jump before i get winded? Where was this wolf hiding these 2 copper? Why can't i pick up that axe, he was just hitting me with it. I can see it. Where did it go?

Posted: Jul 22nd 2010 9:45AM (Unverified) said

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I want an economy. Sounds small but you'd be amazed what it does to strengthen the community (read population) of a title. Not to mention that with a robust in game economy there's usually a very healthy assortment of crafting careers to pursue.

Deformable terrain would also be nice. That way a miner, woodsman or farmer profession could actually rip up the ground or cut down trees instead of having to go to a specific location or farm nodes.

Posted: Jul 22nd 2010 9:58AM Pingles said

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Just fun, thanks.

If I'm having fun it doesn't matter to me.

Realism is way too subjective a description. Does my toon have to carry around toilet paper?

Posted: Jul 22nd 2010 10:22AM Nickelpat said

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Gameplay first. If they can do realism after that and make it fun, power to them! I don't have a "Dream MMORPG", I like to have a variety, and I like to see what devs come up with. So I can't say "Yes, I want realism" I can say, "Yes, I would definitely try a game that pushed realism".

Posted: Jul 22nd 2010 11:03AM Snichy said

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If its a game based on realiaty, it needs to be realistic, i.e. accurate. For example, in APB as a sniper if a shoot a guy with a high powered rifle in the head it does the same damage as it I shoot him in the toe. This isnt realistic therefore a poor gameplay choice by the developers and prevents a sense of immersion. However the same cant be said for a phaser in STO as I am not expecting the same level of realism because quite simply phasers arent real...!

Posted: Jul 22nd 2010 11:07AM Snichy said

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Apologies for the multiple spelling and grammar errors - this is as it should have been if I had actually proof-read it before I clicked reply:

If it's a game based on reality, it needs to be realistic, i.e. accurate. For example, in APB as a sniper if I shoot a guy with a high powered rifle in the head it does the same damage as if I shoot him in the toe. This isn't realistic therefore a poor gameplay choice by the developers and prevents a sense of immersion. However the same cant be said for a phaser in STO as I am not expecting the same level of realism because quite simply phasers arent real...!
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Posted: Jul 22nd 2010 11:06AM (Unverified) said

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Well to the first poster I'd like to say that Dark Ages of Camelot does have the night and day mob change thing down. And the fact that some mobs call for help and some come in droves even if your trying to pull one.

I still think Dark Ages was wayyyyyyy ahead of its time and is a great game. Will always be better than WoW IMO.

That being said I like games to look more real instead of a cartoon. Water should reflect and not be the color of cartoon hair.

You should be able to swim and drown. Deformable terrain (to some extent) You shouldnt be able to grab a shovel and dig to ' what would be the other side of the world'

I agree that quests and karma / faction should have a MUCH larger impact on building a character.

I think humanoid mobs should drop swords/ armor and wolfs / bears .. should not.

Posted: Jul 22nd 2010 1:01PM Pingles said

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DAoC also had the best PvP Ive ever participated in with realm vs realm and specific zones for flagged PvP.
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Posted: Jul 22nd 2010 11:06AM mordoc71 said

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I think there is a delicate balance. My first MMO was SWG when it launched. I won't go into the politics of what happened, but there were realism touches I just haven't seen much of since. For example, changing weather conditions! Small subtle touch, but adds to the atmosphere. Day/night definitely can be done better than we've seen in subsequent years. Drifting clouds, swaying grasses and trees. Or if in space, swirling/moving nebulae. Do I need a crafting model that faithfully recreates the exact likeness of items like lightsabers or war hammers? Nope. But the subtle world items can a lot.

Posted: Jul 22nd 2010 11:21AM LizardSF said

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It's been my experience many people invoke "realism" solely when they see an advantage to be gained ("Why don't we get all the armor and weapons we see on the monsters when we kill them? Why can't I attack anyone I want to anytime I want to?") and ignore it when it would be a disadvantage ("What do you mean, I can't fit eight sets of plate armor in my backpack? What do you mean, I starved to death?" "What do you mean, the MONSTER took my weapon from my corpse and is now running around with it?"[1]). "Realism" is usually invoked when a game design decision made for purposes of balance annoys people who'd rather exploit the system.

As a good example, early in UOs history, people found they could block moongates with furniture, then stand just outside the guard call range and massacre people coming through, or build houses inside dungeons and attack people outside them with impunity, as people inside couldn't be targeted. These were quickly fixed, and people cried "Realism!", but never asked "Wait, how is it realistic that I can carry twelve king size beds in my backpack? How is it realistic that I can make a house appear in a second with a piece of paper?"

In response to some other posters... I'd really like to see more day/night, seasons, etc, in MMORPGs. I'd like some NPCs, quests, etc, to only be around at night, or during the fall (and not just "holiday" type NPCs.) I'd like for you to have a choice between selling your loot at a lot price to a generic merchant or a higher price to a specific merchant -- armor to a blacksmith, meat to a butcher. (Because this creates a market for PLAYERS to buy meat off one player for more than the "generic" merchant will pay, then carry it to a butcher for a profit.) I'd like to see weather with game effects -- fire spells do half damage in the rain. Armor rusts if you swim in it. And I'd really, really, like a system where what you carry has both weight and VOLUME and you've got to make a lot of hard choices about what you can take with you. No "slots", just "size". A bag might hold 2 cubic feet -- that could be hundreds of small gems but only a few chunks of iron ore. (This creates an economy as well, people willing to buy bulky items from you in the wilderness and make the effort to haul them back to be sold.)

[1]I think it would be amazing if monsters in a region "leveled up" as they killed players.. if a particular goblin kills 5 players without dying, it gets a name and becomes a "skilled goblin warrior", and so on. It would be difficult to balance this without allowing exploits like "feeding" it throwaway characters until it's "high level" and drops good loot, but I think it's a nifty idea.

Posted: Jul 22nd 2010 11:38AM Saker said

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Love the idea about mobs that level up, I've often thought that would be a more interesting and reasonable direction to go. Environments just plain need to be more dynamic. I do seem to remember some game that was in development that had something like this with mobs. If players didn't clean out the undead, they would grow, and eventually attack the nearby town, that kind of thing but can't remember the name of the game or if it's still in development or not....
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Posted: Jul 22nd 2010 11:27AM Tom in VA said

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One of the reasons I like LotRO is that the armors and weapons are somewhat realistic, as opposed to the Las Vegas-style sparkles, neon, and floaty bits you see in WoW. I also really hate the ridiculous "show-me-some-skin" armors of some MMOs (ahem -- Aion, TERA, etc. -- yes, I'm looking at you). Is that a warrior or Liberace? It's not prudery, on my part; it's just the complete absurdity of such armors. It's immersion-breaking, imo.

I prefer plausible armor designs, character models, and world creation details, if at all possible. That's all the "realism" I look for.

Posted: Jul 22nd 2010 11:34AM Saker said

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Agree completely about the armor designs, or what passes for art "style" some of these games use. It's utterly ridiculous! Armor that looks like you'd expect in some kind of S&M leather fetish stripper club! And WoW style giant-sized sparkle-weapons, please!
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