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Reader Comments (50)

Posted: Jul 22nd 2010 4:11PM (Unverified) said

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Uh.
It would cost me $55 dollars to transfer my shaman to play with my friends on Turalyon-H.
4 dollars for more ship slots or bridge officer slots... WHICH YOU DON'T EVEN NEED, isn't that bad.

Posted: Jul 22nd 2010 4:20PM HackJack said

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I remember character transfers were 20 or 25 bucks @ WoW. 55? What is that?

Anyways double dipping is BS. Greed is BS. I hate greedy people and I really hope they die in atrocious ways. Not specifically them from Cryptic. Just any greedy bastard.
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Posted: Jul 22nd 2010 4:38PM NekoDaimyo said

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It's probably server and faction change.
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Posted: Jul 22nd 2010 4:31PM mdisloki said

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I recently got into a closed beta that basically put a stake in the heart of my STO playing. The game was fun for the tie I played, but it's time to move on. So long STO, maybe I'll be back some day.

Posted: Jul 22nd 2010 4:32PM mdisloki said

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time***

DAMN YOU PROOF READING!

Posted: Jul 22nd 2010 4:38PM Marz said

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I have played on a really great game that didn't make money, (Tabula Rasa) So now, when I do play games I like, I really hope the company knows how to make a buck. (and then invest it back into the game or new games)

The trick is not to anger your base while doing it. Because if you do then you have to get that apology letter ready and do the sacrificial firing of whomever you decide to pin the blame on.

Posted: Jul 22nd 2010 4:44PM Existentialist said

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EVE Online, Mortal Online, and Darkfall.

Games that don't have players using fallacious real life analogies to justify cash stores.

Everquest/Everquest 2, World of Warcraft, and STO.

Games that do.

Notice a difference in the target demographics?

You casual players brought it on yourselves, now I am just going to sit back and laugh and say "I told you so."

Posted: Jul 22nd 2010 4:52PM (Unverified) said

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Enjoy that...
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Posted: Jul 22nd 2010 4:56PM Thac0 said

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but Mortal Online, and Darkfall suck and EvE is boring.
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Posted: Jul 22nd 2010 5:28PM breezer said

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"Notice a difference in the target demographis?"


Yeah, the first group's demographic thinks they're better than they really are.
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Posted: Jul 22nd 2010 5:28PM shoan said

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I'm sorry when in eq2 Kingdom of Sky I had to camp a stupid ass cloud for an essence while standing in blasted fog and not seeing anything buy gray for HOURS I would hardly call that casual. Any time I think of going back to eq2 I remember that cloud and walk away.
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Posted: Jul 22nd 2010 5:59PM RyanGreene said

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Everquest is casual? Seriously?

And if my real-life analogies appear to justify cash shops, then I didn't make myself clear enough. Sorry! Take the television example I used. I understand the extra fee for the premium content of HBO. I don't particularly like that extra fee either, M, but I can understand it.

A company requiring extra fees for utter mundanities, such as character slots or a slightly expanded starship inventory? That I don't get. But I also don't lose much sleep over cash shops in my subscription games, because I don't use them and I'm not tempted to use them.
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Posted: Jul 22nd 2010 6:24PM Existentialist said

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Dear Ryan,

How about when we try to justify, refute business models in gaming we use gaming? Or the history of gaming?

My argument is thus, why do I have to pay for something I once got for a flat price? When MMOs started out there were no cash shops, there was a flat rate subscription that I paid monthly. Why do people let companies get away with changing this model?

Before you say "Inflation, increase of expenses, additional hiring" look at games like EVE online. They operate on a flat rate of 15$ a month and have added the genius "PLEX."

I avoid out of gaming real analogies as much as I can because people end up talking so much about whether the analogy is valid or not rather than addressing the argument itself.

We once got all of the content for a flat rate, now companies are charging more. It all matters on where you draw the line. I do not play games with cash shops, I play games with subscriptions.

I see that right now companies like SOE, Cryptic, Turbine, and Blizzard are testing the waters to see what exactly players will accept. Look at Everquest 2, (and no Everquest is not casual, but it does have a cash shop) first they sold appearance items, potions, character changes. Then they saw that was fine with the community then they tried Mounts. They saw that this is ok with the community now they try a cape with feather fall and an effect, for 15$. Where is the respect for the consumer? Why does the consumer let them get away with this?

So you tell me, where does it stop? Where do *you* think it should stop?

As a once consumer of Everquest 2 I put in my opinion with my money and I stopped playing.
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Posted: Jul 22nd 2010 7:00PM J Brad Hicks said

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EVE Online doesn't belong on your list of companies that don't have RMT, not since they started selling PLEX that can be converted into ISK.
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Posted: Jul 22nd 2010 7:09PM Existentialist said

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Who said anything about RMT?

I'll address this fact though and why it makes sense.

There is a market out there for converting real money into in-game money. Every game has this problem.

Think about how CCP solved this problem, they offered an item that you buy using Real Life Cash (15$) and then you sell it to a player in-game and they get a month of game time. This makes it to where players who don't spend enough time in-game to get enough money can use RL cash and players who do spend enough time can play for free.

This however is not a cash shop. This is not content. See the difference between a cash shop and PLEX?

That way it all stays in the loop of the players, and you cannot sell in-game money for RL money, but you can buy in-game money for RL money. All people in this system profit, the player spending the 15$, the player buying the PLEX, CCP getting the 15$.

Is my point valid or do you see a fault in it?
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Posted: Jul 22nd 2010 5:07PM (Unverified) said

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I can understand the rage over per toon pricing, but in all fairness the offerings are for things that are not at all necessary. The only reason someone would need more BOs than we have available to us now is if they want to have entirely different crews for different ships or scenarios. I remedied that by raising more toons to the cap (3 RA5s and one BG5 so far). But, for Jehoshaphat's sake, who needs 10 ships?

Posted: Jul 22nd 2010 5:14PM Marz said

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THAC0 said: but Mortal Online, and Darkfall suck...
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Marz says: Probably not to the people who play them.

Games are as hard core or as casual as you make them. Anyone who has been in a WoW Raiding guild would hardly call that game casual.

On the other hand I have played EVE for hours mining Ice in high sec with a movie on. Occasionally I would transfer the ice from the Mac's cargo hold to the Orcas. That is about as casual as you can get. (When the Rats come you just put out the drones and then it is back to the movie)


(BTW I have never tried Mortal online but I did try Darkfall: guys in plate mail would kill me while I would try to do the starter quests, this happened over and over. In EVE if a red comes into your space people broadcast it and everyone will group up and kill them, in Darkfall; experienced and geared players going into enemy territory and killing n00bs seems to be just ignored)

Posted: Jul 22nd 2010 5:35PM Existentialist said

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WoW's main focus is PvE (and no-consequence PvP).

EVE's main focus is PvP.

Compare then the end-games and tell me which is the hardcore game and which the casual.

Know what would make WoW a hardcore game? If you lost half of your gear when you died and the other have could be looted.

Hardcore is about Risk v Reward, hardcore is about skill. Let us argue semantics.

I do not deny that players should play that which is fun to them, be it hardcore games or casual games, but when games change to suit the casual player and push out the hardcore player (SWG) then it bothers me a fair bit.

Maybe you think gaming is getting better with the inclusion of cash shops, I do not. Just like cryptic is doing now I think it is only the fault of the weak consumer who allows it in his games. These are not my games anymore, I left EQ2 specifically because they added a cash shop, these are your games now and the developers will do exactly as they wish as long as the casual players let them get away with it, for me and my hardcore brethren though, we will have no such thing in our games and we have developers that support us in that belief.

This is why I laugh at how MMO's are turning out, I spoke for three days against the cash shops in EQ2 and how they were going to do these things. Now I laugh at you, all of the people who told me I was wrong and how foolish I was and how this is the type of gaming they wanted. Well here it comes, won't be long before EQ2 does the same thing and no one will be there to stop it.

"Get your sparkle ponies here! Only 25$ in cash will make you unique! Get your raid armor here! Only 50$ will make you leet!"

The future of your "Casual" MMO's.
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Posted: Jul 22nd 2010 5:17PM Suplyndmnd said

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1.) I've complained for a long time about the price of cable tv and the fact it's going up and i'm still not getting premium channels. I'll probably be getting rid of it soon. Also, it doesn't give an advantage in a competition.

2.) I specifically found a gym that was 20 bucks a month and included the heartsplosion whatever things with it just to not be nickel and dimed to death.

3.) People complain CONSTANTLY now about airlines and they have for year about how they went from free pack of cards, a soda, some pretzels and a pillow to one airline debating putting in PAY TOILETS! People have raged hard on this and even against the baggage fees. If I were to fly, i'd fly something liek Southwest Airlines that you get 2 bags free. I think it used to be unlimited but i'm not sure.

My point is, i hate microtransaction stores. I will pay 16.95 instead of 14.95 to keep them out of the game because it'll be worth 2 bucks a month to have a level playing field and the only thing keeping me from having the epic gear would be time. I hate pre-order items, i hate special Collectors Edition items (in MMO's mind you), and all that other crap they use to lure people in. Why cant someone just make a freakin' good game that people will be willing to pay to get. The worse offender to me was WoW. They rake in more money by itself then probably #2-10 most popular MMO's in line yet they have a cash shop now. If you have the userbase they have and money is still tight, it's not your game that needs more work it's your Financial structure.

Posted: Jul 22nd 2010 5:37PM Samael said

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American air travel sucks on lots of levels. Hence why I refuse to fly any american carriers. I am willing to pay a little more for getting everything, rather than being nickled and dimed to death.

I hate cash stores in MMOs, I really really hate them in sub games. But people just gobble it up, and they cater to the people that give them $15/month on sub and then another $10 in cash stores.

Cryptic from the beginning has shown signs of being the biggest bunch of idiots from the launch of CO and STO. They have shown a tremendous lack of respect for their customers, but the customers that stick with them and still provide them with money are to blame for this.

As long as people pay to be ripped off over and over again, people will get ripped off. We can scream and shout, but it will not change a thing because they see a benefit from it. I am just sad that people do not see where this is leading us.
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